by: An Anonymous Bochur
On a walk down Kingston following an energizing shabbos that brimmed with Chassidishe farbrengen, I got stuck behind two girls and was privy to their conversation.
It was the awkward block between Carroll and Crown where you can’t overtake other people, and there are those potholes with trees inside, you all know what I mean – b’kitzur, I was stuck behind them.
Girl one was telling girl two about her Shabbos meal that day and how it started at 2 pm.
“That’s crazy late to start a meal. Why can’t men come home from shul earlier,” she said. “It’s so disrespectful to their wives,” was their conclusion.
I admit I have heard this complaint before. Due to the style of my Chabad house, I never saw my parents navigating this shabbos farbrengen situation, but I’ve heard from newly married friends about the complaints and seen the presence of married yungeleit* at a shabbos afternoon farbrengen dwindle.
*I understand things are different when you’re a father of a grown family, I am referring to yungeleit and fathers of 1 or 2 children specifically.
It is well known that the Alter Rebbe instructed Chabad shuls to be build with a Chabadnitzer, a room specifically for chassidim who wanted to daven baavodah.
Dor hashvii is nisht andersh – as a bochur I watched mashpiim daven baavodah and was encouraged and guided to do so myself.
Throughout the week, the clock is ticking, a man’s hands and mind are occupied. He has to provide for his family, involve himself in the world.
Shabbos is his time to rejuvenate and refocus through davening and farbrenging with his fellow chassidim.
This custom of Chabad Chassidim is generations old, 7 to be precise, beginning from when the Alter Rebbe made the choice to go to the Maggid of Mezritch.
Staying at a farbrengen on Shabbos afternoon is how it’s supposed to be. It is not disrespectful, farfrumpt or farchenyokt for a bochur or young man to do so.
A Chossid is meant to farbreng on shabbos, he is not meant to rush home right after davening and have a meal like the rest of the oilom does.
This is the derech of Chabad Chassidim and what gives us chayus, literal energy to continue carrying the burden of the week ahead, with all the narishkiet and gashmiyus it involves.
Its definitely a concern that when the time is right, and I am to get married, I will be expected to slowly let go and compromise on the things that keep me anchored above, and give me energy.
This is not an op-ed to bash the noshim tzidkoniyos in our midst. This is an op-ed to raise awareness and request acceptance of a Chassidishe Hanhogo.
So I say:
To the current wives of Lubavitch; allow your husband to stay an hour, an extra hour and a half, guilt free. So he can let his neshama have some “me” time, some Rebbe time. To gain inspiration, energy and chayus for the week ahead. So that the coming week will be a tefach hecher than the week before.
To the Seminary teachers; teach the future wives of Lubavitch to want a husband who acts so, and to respect and encourage it.
To the Principals: show girls where they can find Kiddush in the Siddur for Shabbos day, so they can make it themselves, and won’t go hungry waiting for their husbands.
To the Bochurim and yungeleit: take advantage of the time you have now to sit at a farbrengen, to marinate in and internalize the nigunim. Take advantage of how easy it is to be there, don’t waste the opportunity and your flexibility!
And to myself: I daven that I’ll find someone who will appreciate that this is how a chossid spends his shabbos. And for now, I’ll take advantage of the time I have.
Ok, you want your wife to be stuck inside the tiny apartment with the babies and toddlers for an extra hour, appreciate the mesirus nefesh it entails and you keep the kids occupied and happy without being able to leave while your wife enjoys an uninterrupted 2 hour nap.
Until you’ve committed to that, don’t expect your wife to be alone at home from 9-2 cooped up with no contact with any adults and no fresh air.
This is why people leave to places with proper eruvim!
B. H. Everything you said about men applies to women too. Unlike us who go doven and learn on shul 3 times a day, women never go to shul or get a chance to recharge their spiritual batteries. Then they are stuck home with baby (as all week) and can’t eat till husband comes home. We need a practical social solution. Some kind of community arranged babysitting so women can come for musaf and stay to fabrang and recharge their batteries too!
I am a woman who has raised eight children, I never felt that being home with my children on Shabbos morning was being “cooped up“. That, is the problem today. some girls get married because it is the “done thing”, And then when they end up having children they feel “burdened “. These children are “ burdens” to some of today’s young mothers. But, today more than ever our children need to be given as much chasidishe chinuch as possible if, they are to remain frum at all. For children to know that their TATI is at a farbrengen should… Read more »
You know most Islamic women who are forced to wear full body covering will say it “empowers them”. Your don’t believe that, and I don’t believe you. It’s called never really having a choice and you accepted that and now you’re excusing it.
You are different
Living in CH is very different than living in a different community. Always places to go visit, Shiurim, farbrengen or being a guest. Couples can find time for these things , shabos is only one day and takes effort to plan ahead to enjoy it .
So happy it worked for you. I highly doubt it was so happy and wonderful all the time. Well I have five kids under six – im always pregnant so im always too tired to take care of all the kids all shabbos morning/afternoon. None of them can go to shul so they are all home and my husband wants to stay out late on shabbos afternoon and when he comes back home he wants to say chitas and rambam and have a nap because he is so tired. And besides by the time he comes home I have no… Read more »
Times are different, lady. Today’s kids need to know that their father is there for them and home for kiddush.
Though I do agree that girls should not get married until they are ready. There is too much pressure.
I’m glad that this works for YOU but your sanctimonious “shame on you” rant is just not it. You have no idea what someone else’s life is. To look at their clothing, criticize their tznius, and feel better than them doesn’t make you a tzedakis or them a rasha. We have to focus on ourselves and our family and finding what works for our circumstances. I managed to work 8 hours a day (on my feet) while expecting, running the house etc. But my neighbor was sick her entire pregnancy and could barely get out of bed. Should I look… Read more »
You know, before the gartlach, after Nochums closet/office. After getting pushed by Nochum so he can get to his office I headed towards the door. Don’t ask how, but I got stuck behind two benches and couldn’t overtake because my suit is too tight, but that’s for another time. Anyways, I was privy to two youngerleits conversation. Rather than going around, I decided to listen to what they were saying and doing at 2PM on shabbos when their wives are waiting for them at home in their beautiful one bedroom with a view of the Manhattann skyline. They’re sitting there… Read more »
100%, good energy is the key for Sholom Bayis, If a Chasidishe Farbrengen will bring that, then it’s an excellent investment. Better be home for an hour less with good energy and a sense of higher purpose!
“If a Chassidishe Farbrengen will bring [good energy], then it’s an excellent investment.” Well, considering the existence of a wife in the picture, it probably won’t bring in any good energy. So it probably isn’t the best investment.
That’s dumb! Only a hypocrite of a wife would pretend to be a Lubavitcher and not allow her husband a farbrengen.
Said by a woman.
It’s not about allowing. Every person makes decisions for themselves on their own. No husband or wife can “allow” or “disallow” their spouse to do something.
It’s about being a unit. The same way money matters re discussed, the same way Chinuch is decided together, the way that Shabbos morning runs is discussed and decided together. Husbands need to understand their wives more, and wives need to understand their husbands better. If there’s no way to make everyone happy, a compromise will need to be made, but it is made together as one.
It’s not about saying kiddush and eating. We want to be together with our father/brothers/husband once a week to eat a meal together. The men should daven earlier and then farbreng. Or farbreng in the afternoon.
That is what the Friday night meal is for
Is two meals with your family too much? Like seriously.
Thanks for your thoughts. A point to consider: a typical Shabbos davening lasts 2.5-3 hours. That’s 3 hours of time to rejuvenate, reconnect, etc. It’s a long time. Meanwhile, your wife is at home, alone, with a bunch of tiny children, trying to prepare the meal, alone, so you can daven in peace. And then, the man would like another 1.5 hours to farbreng? I understand 30 minutes. Perhaps 45. Beyond that- it’s too much. You write about wanting women to understand the man’s “need”. I believe that need is being met by a nice long davening and a 30… Read more »
A half an hour is not enough time to farbreng. Even an hour and a half is not enough but one has to make do with what one has. In Yeshiva on a regular week you farbreng for a few hours Thursday night, and then 3-4 hours on shabbos day. So for yungerleit coming from yeshiva to ask for an hour and a half per week is not so much. Understand how he really needs more but is giving it up for his dear wife. Half an hour is a shmooz, not a farbrengen. Maybe in seminaries that’s how farbrengens… Read more »
So your position is that the husband should carry on like he’s a bochur but have all the benefits of a family at the expense of his wife?? I wonder what such a man could gain from a farbrengan with such a self-focus on what he wants. Doesn’t seem like a chassidic perspective
When a man gets married he has to realize that now he is married. And when he has kids even much more so, now he is a father.
Now that my children are married and it is my grand children that come for the meal I intentionally scheduled the meal for 1 1/2 hours after Davening is over so that they have a chance to take part in a farbrengen. this not only does not deter from the enjoyment of the meal but actually enhances the meal with the contents of the farbrengen. When one limits the time for a farbrengen it removes the warmth and all the emotion and feeling it should give
Marriage is not Yeshiva. Fatherhood is not Yeshiva.
If a husband and father would like to farbreng, 6am before the children get up is a great time, 8pm after bathing and putting the kids to bed is a great time.
On someone else’s watch is the only time that isn’t a great time to farbreng.
what? Im so sorry your 1 hour farbrengen is not enough. Youre going to complain that however much time isnt enough while that 1 hour is actually a sacrifice to your wife or whomever? I dont really care abt this but thats kind of ridiculous
Really impressed how well it was written and expressed. Btw some married men “run away” from their wives on purpose to “get away” and not face a uncomfortable situation with her, but for this you’ll learn within time. And farbrengens is one of the excuses. To those men I say: man up, because if you dont face the problem today you’ll face it even worser tomorrow and by then it’ll be to late to do anything about it.
I agree 💯!
As mother of 6 raising kids without eruv, we made an agreement that I can wait till 2pm. After that it’s just too much, I feel alone and forgotten and very resentful. Kids r jumping on my head since early morning, etc.
Every couple need to make the time that they r comfortable with.
And yes, bochrim and bachurot, enjoy the fabrengens now!
When I came to Chabad after learning in a non-Chabad baal teshuva seminary, it was 1991. While still single and going to families for Shabbos, I was shocked to see the husband dash away from the Shabbos meal a short while after making kiddush. I felt so bad for the wife, ( and also for my friends and I who wrre expecting divrei Torah, etc), and asked what is happening. She explained there is a farbrengen. At the time, I had basically no appreciation for what farbrengen meant. But after some time thinking about it, I realized how special it… Read more »
Ur confusing stuff…he was probably dashing to a farbrengen of the Rebbe. Diff from the farbrengen ppl hang out at now. Also not so nice to put a name in that context.
dont see no name’
The Rebbe writes in Igros that the farbrengen should continue at home, that the wife and children should also be inspired.
I think This will add in the wife’s respect of the husband’s farebrenging
with all due respect i think this is not true, mabey they should also allow a eiruv in crown hjieght???!!!!!
That’s an extremely important point.
There is enough time to farbreng at home with one’s family after the farbrengen with friends which will inspire him in turn, טופח על מנת להטפיח
Couldn’t have written better. Totally to the point.
Thanks for bringing up this important issue. The truth is this is just one of many important examples of many chassidishe hanhagos that unfortunately are pushed to the wayside when a Bochur gets married..
….it reads like someone who is not married and doesn’t really understand it either. Your future wife will also be involved in so much during the week. We love our homes and our children and our work and our endless task list. But we also need that time to “reacharge.” The fact that 3 hours of shabbos davening (and 1-2 hours of tehillim or learning before for some men) is the “given” can set up a very unequal expectation. Yes, we want to support our husbands in their learning and davening and their own spiritual/emotional health. Of COURSE we do.… Read more »
So women should choose a time to get together and farbreng (at a time that won’t interfere with minyanim). On the other hand this is the only time for guys to get together with friends as they are learning/working the whole week
There is no Eruv!!
How are women supposed to get togather to farbreng ?
Also some of us are nursing moms , so we can’t just leave babies at home , especially with husbands not there … how obnoxious
When you are dating, make sure you bring it up. For the 1st year (9montbs plus) the wife can definitely be upstairs & listen in to what’s going on down stairs.
Also, she should know from her father’s table, what she wants & should expect.
Good luck finding the perfect match.
But what do I have to lose.
I’m so deeply disturbed.
First of all, we girls know how to make Kiddush and don’t like being spoken to like this.
The seminary teacher who teach these things are the wrong people.
And first get married and have a life and than come back and rewrite what u need to.
Op-ed writer, you are clearly a chassidishe bochur – farbrengens are your priority. Comment writer, you are clearly a chassidishe meidel – you know how to make kiddush.
This shidduch is a no-brainer.
You can Cashapp the shadchanus gelt to $commentlurker18
Best. Commment. Ever.
i like that!!!
; )
Mazal tov!
Go sterling
INvite me to the wedding!!!!!!!
Totally agree! We definitely don’t need someone to teach us where and how to do kiddish! It’s insulting to say that.
….it’s called opening a siddur. I’m on your side here but it’s really that simple. Nobody who calls themselves frum should be stuck not able to eat because they don’t know to read a single paragraph and beracha from a siddur.
Women aren’t waiting because they can’t make kiddush themselves, they’re waiting out of respect for their husbands. Now wouldn’t it be lovely if the men respected their wives in return?
if this is consistent behavior, you’re letting yourself be repeatedly disrespected
Coming home late one day to find the meal started without you is very different than coming home late every week and being mad that people didn’t want to wait.
Your plea to women is extremely tone deaf. There are times and ways to rejuvenate and re-energize oneself that doesn’t entail ones wife to be trapped in her home without the option of leaving. Each couple can and should try to make it work- the same way a man needs rejuvenation, so does a woman. She also needs to go to farbrengns and see friends and be a human outside of her mothering role. This is a discussion of how to achieve this balance for both parties that should happen between couples. Begging women to be 10% more of the… Read more »
Another op-Ed
The bochrim celebrate!
As a woman my instinct is to take issue with this article. Though, after giving it some thought I do see a point here. In many ways as women who did no live through the “Yeshiva System” at times we tend to not take seriously the ruchniasdike experience our husband’s may need which may be very different than our needs. So while I do not agree with this article completely, and I believe husbands should be very considerate and thoughtful, I think this article reminds us women about the sensitivity we must have to our husbands ruchniasdike needs and not… Read more »
My father davenned b’arichus and farbrenged after. It was a given that Shabbos day Seudah we ate without our father. And I was proud that I have such a chassidishe father. It was a way of life. This was over 60 years ago and that’s what chassidim did. This needs to be discussed while dating. And it needs to be done with his wife’s full permission. If she resents it, then sholom bayis is more important. It can be discussed with a mashpia. And definitely make it up to her by taking care of the kids so she can have… Read more »
Beautifully said. The wife’s full permission (uncoerced, not with guilting/bullying/shaming) is needed for long davening and farbrengens to be the norm. You hit the nail on the head when you point out that this should be discussed while dating and with mashpiim.
The author of the article also fails to mention (probably because he is a bochur) that there are different phases of life. What works for a newlywed couple might change when they have a young child or IY”H several young children all together. it can’t be one-sided
He actually did
See the aterisk
Save these headlines for real juicy articles
~Mushka from Crown Heights
A few comments above, they are celebrating it too. Haha
All ur saying is that woman need time too. agreed. Another truth doesn’t undermine the truth of this article. Im sure COL would accept another article on that issue.
The article is tone deaf because it is a bochur discussing how women should sacrifice more than we already are and be happy about it. He has no idea what marriage is like and also fails to address the sacrifices for women even with the minimum (minyanim, a shiur here and there) in her already busy schedule. marriage is SUPPOSED to be a partnership. not an extension of bochur life. that is why it reads extremely tone deaf.
Can I assume from this article that you would be happy to offer your wife 4-5 consecutive hours of time to herself on a weekly basis, while you care for your children and prepare dinner? Because only in that case, your point is fair.
True, though many men today actually do just that, or at least do a lot of the work at home, not to take away from the wife’s hard work, but fact is, men today do much more and in some homes just or almost as much as the wife.
Article would be great if there was a chasidishe farbrengin! I see what goes on. a bunch of guys sitting around drinking! Davin bavodah? When is the last time you saw that? Open your eyes! It’s just an excuse to sit a get drunk. It’s absolutely disrespectful. But sure send a list of all the chasidishe guys in the chabaditZer! Are you kidding me??
many bochurim and balebatim farbreng on shabbos
Chill!
You are not marrying yourself.
You are in a relationship, talk to your wife. (You aren’t)
No. I cannot agree with this when the women is sitting at home with the kids the entire shabbos bc there is no eruv and the husband needs to farbreng. No.
While i can understand that shabbos kiddish / farb is a valuable time for men to rejuvenate etc , this issue is not that how dare they spend enjoyable time away from their wives (we aren’t all co-dependent). The issue is how trapped moms are in Ch without an eruv …so some understanding that unless that changes and new moms have a way to get out, see their own friend etc on shabbos, husbands need to understand their wives predicament as well and be an advocate and partner. Living out of town, moms who use the eruv and get to… Read more »
Good luck getting married. You sound like a guy who wants to stay a Bochur his whole life. Sorry to break it to you, but that’s not how life works. Good Shalom Bayis means prioritizing your wife and her needs. Don’t expect all women to support this extreme point of view.
You seem like an idealistic and sincere bochur–but clearly lacking in the awareness of what’s it’s like to move beyond the yeshiva bochur status and take on the increased responsibility of a wife and children. What you are suggesting is akin to a “stay in the Midbar” mentality. Certainly, the mesorah of Chassidim learning, davening b’arichus and farbrenging is holy. I have the impression that in these current times, however, farbrengens are not as “avoidadik” as they formerly were, vs. being great times for shmoozing and drinking high-end mashka….of course, there still remain the ruchnius and pure of spirit…Good Shabbos!
I’m almost 60 years old. Since I was a child, I recall every single shabbos my mother scolding my father in the strongest possible terms for coming home so late shabbos afternoon! And of course the following shabbos the story would repeat itself. It’s now close to 60 years of marriage KE”H and the weekly ritual continues!! 🙂
Your mom still has hope to change him after 60 years. Impressive!!
A true Chossid would never ignore his wife’s request. Even the first time.
Fax to the max, sai a bochur, sai a seminary maiden, we should all farbreng and use each and every moment of our life.
Lechaim!
“To the Bochurim and yungeleit: take advantage of the time you have now to sit at a farbrengen, to marinate in and internalize the nigunim. Take advantage of how easy it is to be there, don’t waste the opportunity and your flexibility!”
Though… actually farbrengens where u work on yourself so ur not some self absorbed person that cannot think of another person (namely ur wife)!
Please, do yourself a real favor. And a favor to anyone you date, PLEASE bring this up on your first date. With all your enthusiasm and passion (I mean, you wrote a whole long article about it! Should be easy!) First date – preferred within the first 2 hours. Let the women know what you think her role is, in your farbrengen life. What her shabbos should look like etc. Remind her about how much “me time” you need… Maybe even show her where kiddush is (!), just in case her seminary teacher didn’t read this fine masterpiece you wrote…… Read more »
Great
This is amazing, true and extremely well written. Laughed out loud, glad you commented
The guys involved in all this, talk during davening.
Inasmuch as they talk during davening, it’s just empty.
They wake up late, come to shul late, and talk through davening. Then suddenly they need many hours after to act chassidish.
Be chassidish on your own cheshbon, not on your wife’s who you’re supposed to cherish and respect.
As a bocher do what you’re supposed to do. don’t mix in to things you don’t understand. you can do damage.
A yungerman who farbrengs but makes sure it’s the right time for my wife
one who fabrengs and learns in his time and prioritizes his family internalizes everything and truly brings down brachas!! wishing your family much joy and success
Farbrengen? What farbrengen? 85% of yungerliet who stay after davening are there to fress herring and drink tequila and continue the conversation they started by the kiddush club. 85% of those 85% wake up at 9:55 come to shul at 11:15 and begin drinking at 11:20. They farbreng shabbos afternoon al derech the way they learn Chassidus and go go mikvah on shabbos morning. And if staying in shul half the afternoon is not enough, they show up half drunk fall asleep at their shabbos tables and then excuse themselves and go to sleep, bc you know, they are very… Read more »
what did the rebbe do…?
the rebbe is our role model, and what we all strive to reflect and copy (like the minhag that chssidim did, going all the back..). from the year 5748 and onwards the rebbe farbranged every shabbos starting at 1:30 and going for many hours.
was this insulting the wives, or ‘disrespectful?’
obviously not..the rebbe knows that this is the best thing for a chssidishe family, husband and wife alike.
You should also remember your not the rebbe and maybe him doing that was made up in other places further the rebbetzin was most likely ok or agreeable to it but this shouldn’t be expected from everyone
How about you stand in line for hours on end giving out blessings and talking to many thousands of people like the rebbe did and then maybe you can ask you wife to make the sacrifices the rebbetzin made
And also, remember that although the Rebbe made these farbrengens, I am almost 99% sure that the Rebbe would tell someone to go home if their wife wants them home on Shabbos afternoon. Like the Rebbe said that a bigger sgula for Shalom bayis is washing the dishes on ms.
Dont use the Rebbe to justify your selfishness that makes it much worse
You missed the entire point of the article’s ignorance. I can guarantee you that when the Rebbetzin pushed the Rebbe to accept the nesi’us it was with complete willingness to make the sacrifices involved.
How special are these men farbrenging for hours that the sacrifice made solely by their wives and children is bringing so much kedusha into the world?
the idea that you would pick and choose what aspects of the Rebbe you emulate (ie a long time at the fabrengen you want to be at) and ignore the others shows how misguided you are in knowing what is a chossid.
The title of this article is a clear example of what is wrong with crown heights everybody needs to get involved with everybody else everybody has an opinion on everyone If your stuck behind two girls that’s absolutely no excuse to be listening in to their conversation I don’t know how else to say this but you gave away where your mind really was when you give your opinion in this article Question? why didn’t you use that opportunity to chazer some Tanya which would have distracted you from the conversation and allowed you to make a beautiful connection with… Read more »
מִי שֶׁפָּגַע בְּאִשָּׁה בַּשּׁוּק אָסוּר לוֹ לְהַלֵּךְ אַחֲרֶיהָ אֶלָּא רָץ וּמְסַלְּקָהּ לַצְּדָדִין אוֹ לְאַחֲרָיו. וְכָל הַמְהַלֵּך”בַּשּׁוּק אַחֲרֵי אִשָּׁה הֲרֵי זֶה מִקַּלֵּי עַמֵּי הָאָרֶץ. ,
Move to Israel, and all members of the family can sit and farbreng together in Shul. Kids learn value of farbrengen. The issue OP is bringing up is really difficult to actualize in Crown Heights where women with tiny babies are literally stuck at home. In Israel they do a big farbrengen shabbas mevarchim and big chassidic yomim tovim. This way the families are able to have a normal routine of connection on Shabbas and only on special occasions Abba isn’t home all day. I hope you find a woman who can make your dreams come true. There are plenty… Read more »
Why is a chasidishe bocher listening in to a conversation between two girls if your stuck behind them chazer some Tanya
Do you think the wives of R’ Yoel Kahn, R’ Mendel Futerfas or R’ Berke Chein complained that their husbands shouldve been home earlier? Every couple should make it work together but there’s something called having mesiras nefesh for something that’s bigger than yourself and if Lubavitch no longer values that, then where are we headed?
And become a R’ Yoel then get back to us.
Also I think the world has changed.
Yes to all the comments saying this is how Lubavitch was etc… true.
But we aren’t on such a high level anymore.
Lechayim
So so many bochurim get married expecting their wife to be one way while they are another. they want to get to do everything they want to do but don’t hold up their side. They want to marry Rochel but be Eisav.
when those afformentioned mashpiim were farbrenging all shabbos, how old was their youngest child?
The Alter Rebbe delayed himself and cooked food on YK for a postpartum woman. Until you are on that level, stop making one sided comparisons. If you want a heilige wife, you have to be able to be a heilige husband. And that doesn’t mean doing your own personal avoda as you want. That means doing what is difficult
There’s a point to both sides. But fact is, it is the only time many can go to a farbrengen, and to all those that say it’s not a farbrenging, even being around it, inspires sometimes more ways then you can imagine, and has an effect. Should the husband come home every week at 4 pm, no, but like the author wrote, a little late should be ok. Of course there are times, that the husband is needed at home right away. And to all those that say the wife is home all day watching the kids while prepping the… Read more »
Balance is key!
Bichlal why were there girls on kingston?
#MakeKingstonGreatAgain
Where should we walk on Utica????
why can’t girls just walk on Albany or Brooklyn? Is it such a big difference? I understand if you have to go somewhere on Kingston but if you’re just walking to school there’s no reason why you should be on Kingston.
You had the opportunity to open your mind to the female point of view and you missed it. Too bad. Maybe you’ll get another chance when reading these comments. P.S. every girl knows where kiddush is in the siddur just like we know where shema and shmoneh esrei are. That remark feels condescending. P.P.S. “Farbrengen” is just an excuse to dump all responsibility on the wife. I’m sure as a male you see what goes on. The women do not need to turn a blind eye to what goes on for the sake of a “chassidishe” husband. And to those… Read more »
For many families compromises are made, ie; be home by 2. Come home right after shul and go hand out with the guys Sunday night… NO wife OR daughter should feel burdened beacuse they cant get dressed shabbos without have 4+ little kids jumping on them to get them up at 6:30 – 7 am and their father / husband ‘escaped’ and ran out of the house. Going out and spending time with friends is fine and great, but dont let it come at the expense of other family members time and energy.
Your “ruchnius” can not come at the cost of someone else’s gashmius and certainly not their sanity. If a couple agrees to this,that’s up to them but l know l had a tremendous amount of resentment about this when my children were very young.
I feel like you need a lot of tefillos and a lot of coaching… IY”H you will have a wife who won’t miss you or want you around enough to make kiddush for her, or kids who want their tatty to farbreng with them… Stay at the farbrengen, its a good fit for you… However, when truth farbrengs at the one you are at and tells you about the importance of Shalom Bayis, and that a happy home is built on your INVOLVEMENT with your family, rather than using history as a way of scapegoating out of that time, I… Read more »
If you want to avoid this issue just go on shlichus after a year the way it should be
Where the community too, wants to farbreng for 2 hours after davening bh.
But at least the wife and kids can join and experience it too.
That totally depends on the community, Some people have a long walk to shul and no eruv.
Question, from the woman’s perspective would this article be more acceptable if it was written regarding shabbos in the bungalow in the summer (if your able to go) when you have your friends and your not locked in your house?
Thank you so much for giving me this perspective and now I know a value to build in my home one day iyh
Yes, this article has undoubtedly given you the perspective and values you’ll need in life. You’ve made it. Congrats.
We davened and went home to eat and came back for fabrengen with the rebbe. Women brought children to the fabrengen. We women all hoped to be told what the rebbe said in fabrengen
This article is embarrassing but I’m telling myself this bochur simply is still a child.
To call yourself a direct agent of the Rebbe but at the same time bashing ‘chassidishe hanhagos’ as the author calls it is embarrassing. You seem sure that the Rebbe wants you to represent the part of society that prioritizes their own comforts over that of serving G-d. I’m afraid you are in the wrong business. No one is claiming that a husband should go against his wife’s will. All the author is asking for is for women to appreciate chassidishe hanhagos’ more. To recognize their importance in a lubavitch home just as putting on teffilin is important in every… Read more »
This article is written by someone from a rare breed of bochur, a species on the brink of extinction. So go ahead. Crush his spirit. Break him. Try to rid this world of the last remnants of sincerity and holy naiveté. Or not. Appreciate that we still have at least one person who wants to be like his zaidy because he hasn’t yet been infected by your cynicism and negative experiences with drunks. He was NOT being “condescending” when he suggested that wives make their own kiddush. He’s saying that wives NEED NOT wait for their husbands to come home… Read more »
Thank you for sharing that perspective. Although I dont agree with the author, its special to see the sincerity and iyH he will find a wife that will respect and be proud of his position.
read the comments from women here and see how much you have also missed the boat. If you’re not yet married, please engage in some coaching and be very transparent in the shidduch process. Don’t sneak this up on your future wife an shame her into not needing what she needs.
If you are married, check in with your wife. If she is truly happy with your system, then there is no issue for YOUR marriage. but there is definitely an epidemic of selfishness and resentment in many homes that negates any “gain” brought down from a farbrengen.
Whilst you bring up a good point of the importance of being at a Farbrengen after davening on Shabbos (provided that you came to shul on time and davened with the minyan from the start and having said Krias Shma on time), unfortunately as a teacher, parent and grandfather I see the results of children growing up without seeing their father at the Shabbos table and hearing a Dvar Torah or Chassidish story they become completely disinterested in chassidishkeit or even worse CH”V. Let the family know that you’ll be home at a reasonable time and spend time with your… Read more »
Why are all the criticism coming from married women?!
Yeah, a mystery indeed
All this started from something that a man wrote. Stop blaming the women.
The idea of Gender roles come up here.
Women can be the breadwinner as well. And if a woman did choose to be a stay at home mom, how’s that less work than a man putting in full work days.
All that being said.
Your argument is mostly irrelevant.
Communication is key
To each there own as long as there is respect and a attitude of a husband knowing his crown jewel is his ….אשת חיל and a woman knowing her Crown Jewel is her equally hard working husband
(even though there’s different jobs it’s a 50/50 partnership)
I’m a bocher that does not appreciate being categorized because some of my friends are alcoholics or don’t have an authentic relationship and way of talking to hashem or/and therefore don’t appreciate learning his Torah
Listen buddy, how do you explain colors to someone who’s colorblind? You have never experienced married life, you also have the luxury of living in a system that prioritizes the social needs of men above those of women, so have a little bit of bitul and recognize that you as a single bochur are not in a position to lecture married women. The wife waits for her husband, to spend time with him, to hear him compliment her cooking, to hear how much he missed her and was so excited to get home so he could see her. I give… Read more »
In a place like crown heights, where there is no eruv (and many other places)
That is asking for your wife to be home, alone, with the kids.
How is she meant to have a meaningful, enjoyable, relaxing Shabbos?
How are your kids experiencing Shabbos?
Is your farbrenging coming at the expense of your family’s Shabbos?
It is the stories and vertelach that I hear from older Chassidim each Shabbos at the farbrengen that I share with my family. I believe that that this plays an important part in my children’s and our guests ruchniyusdike lives. BH I have a wife who is happy with this. BH she loves her role of being home with the children. It is what gives her energy. To the women and girls who want to be home with their children, please don’t get distracted by all this noise of how can you leave your wife at home by her self… Read more »
This is pure ego and selfishness. Dear Bochur, please look deep into yourself. If the one thing you haven’t learned in Yeshiva or Farbrengens isn’t to care about others needs, especially your wife, more than yourself, you haven’t learned much at all. Also I’m surprised you think this way coming from Shlichus. The Rebbe would do anything to care about another yid, man or woman and that is the one thing shlichus is about.
This article is only valid if that guy gets up shabbos morning at 8am goes to the mikvah and learns hour and a half chassidus before davening. If he rolls out of bed anywhere after 9:30 then zeit nisht a shvants! Your full of ……
In any rate maskil yovin sholom bais and respect for your wife and kids is number one and paramount.
So someone who has trouble and challenges in life, ie. getting up in the morning, doesn’t deserve to farbreng? Isnt that the whole point? To become better ppl?
But not at the expense of others
This is why the Rebbe wanted yungerleit to go on shlichus. Enough of your guilt-free focus on self. Now it’s time to focus on another. This will do exponentially more for your Avodas Hashem. And your wife will love it too!
Now you mentioned helping keep husbands anchored. This is what farbrengens do. But isn’t having a good wife to share ones life with what keeps a man anchored . Yes farbrenging is important but why can’t it be done with your wife and family. Rather then davening that you find a wife that will accept this lovingly why not daven that you have a wife who wants to farbreng and learn with you. Your children and wife would benefit much more so. Also 1 hour after daveing staying later is in most cases not the issue. It’s the 2 and… Read more »
As a mother of a bunch of bochurim, I see that boys have no idea about the world of girls. What values girls are taught, what is important to all of klal yisroel beyond the world of bochurim. The system we have teaches boys to be very egocentric- it’s all about them. Even with a bunch of sisters, my sons do not get it. They are not taught about our holy beautiful Rebbetzins. They laughed when they learned we say the Rebbetzin’s kapitel just like the Rebbe’s. I have been battling this bachur-centric mentality in my home for many years… Read more »
Don’t your boys put on teffilin (your girls probably dont) dont ur boys go to yeshiva from 730am until 930 pm( your girls don’t). Dont your boys daven 3 times a day?. I guess the Torah also has the bachur-centric mentality. Perhaps stop battling with your bochrim and they may start respecting woman
You missed the point. I don’t battle people especially not my own children. I am opening their mind to the reality of the world around them of which they will need to take part in their very near future. Sensitivity, communication, empathy, common sense, responsibility- all the skills they need to learn and practice beyond their male-centered world.
But girls are not nothing 🙂
Stam most bochurim also say the rebbetzins kapitol
True story: my husband was at every farbrengen. But when I was about to give birth (not just once B”H) I begged him to stay home, but he refused. I didn’t feel I could persuade him even though I had a bunch of pitzelech and I was worried who would watch them (no family). Do I regret it? NO. Because my husband had the zchus of being at a TRUE CHASSIDISHE FARBRENGEN – with the Rebbe! He wasn’t scarfing down cholent & kugel, washed down with vodka or scotch. He was feasting on true Chassidus! He was drunk on the… Read more »
For some of us, the Rebbe is still with us.
When the author finds his bashert, I really hope he raises this with his Chossen teacher…whom I hope will be of the caliber of Rabbi Chaikin. He and his Rebbetzin did an excellent job of preparing my sons for marriage & BH, they have very happy wives, because they take their wives’ wishes and needs (even unspoken) into account. It’s called sensitivity and insight. Remember the answer that the Rebbe gave to someone who said his wife was upset that he spent time folding his tallis after Shabbos and she was left with all the clean-up? No? Then get someone… Read more »
How about the women go to shul all day and the men stay home.
How about the men bathe, dress, and diaper the kids, clean, cook, put them to bed, ETC ETC ETC and then the women can go to shul
ב’תתקסח ב”ה, ו’ תִּשְׁרֵי, תשט”ו בְּרוּקְלִין. אֲנַ”שׁ וְהַתְּמִימִים דִּכְפַר חַבַּ”ד אֲשֶׁר בְּאַרְצֵנוּ הַקְּדוֹשָׁה תִּבָּנֶה וְתִכּוֹנֵן עַל יְדֵי מָשִׁיחַ צִדְקֵנוּ ד’ עֲלֵיהֶם יִחְיוּ שָׁלוֹם וּבְרָכָה! הִגִּיעַתְנִי הַשְּׁמוּעָה – אַף כִּי בִּלְתִּי בְּרוּרָה כְּדֵי צָרְכָּהּ – אֲשֶׁר חֵלֶק חָשׁוּב מֵאֲנַ”שׁ וְהַתְּמִימִים נוֹהֲגִים בְּשַׁבָּת מְבָרְכִים לִסְעוֹד שֶׁלֹּא בְּבֵיתָם, וּכְנִרְאֶה שֶׁהַכַּוָּנָה הִיא לֹא לִסְעוּדָה שְׁלִישִׁית אֶלָּא לִסְעוּדָה הַשְּׁנִיָּה, זֹאת אוֹמֶרֶת אֲשֶׁר בְּבִיאָתָם לְהַתְּפִלָּה לְבֵית הַכְּנֶסֶת הִנֵּה חוֹזְרִים הֵם לְבֵיתָם לִפְנוֹת עֶרֶב אוֹ גַּם לְאַחַר תְּפִלַּת עַרְבִית. וְהִנֵּה אֵינֶנִּי יוֹדֵעַ אִם גַּם בְּשָׁנִים שֶׁעָבְרוּ הָיְתָה דַּעַת חֲכָמִים נוֹחָה מֵהַנְהָגָה כְּמוֹ זוֹ, וּכְמוֹ שֶׁמֵּחַד גִּיסָא לָחֲמוּ נֶגֶד הַנָּחוֹת הָעוֹלָם אוּן בַּעֲלֵי בָּתִּים’שֶׁע הַנְהָגוֹת, הֲרֵי לְאִידָךְ גִּיסָא… Read more »
Talking about לסעוד i. e. Eating their meal out of the house, not about coming home 2-3pm…
Nothing is one size fits all. When you get married your relationship will develop with your wife and you will see what is appropriate for your situation. There are many factors to consider -was your wife stuck at home with a cranky baby or a hyper kid, have you been working overtime and had little time together…Once you are married you can see what works for you as a couple.
I highly agree that it’s important for a man to stay post davening an extra 30-60 minutes. 100%.
However I do agree with the two girls who said it’s not right to start a meal at 2pm.
I’ve been to many different Chabad houses, and was home after a farbrengen before 1pm. That’s how it should be.
Shabbos is a time for a spirituality and for family. There’s needs to be a compromise with the two.
is not late for lunch
This is not something for men to aspire to! Why should wives, children and guests have to wait around his schedule? It creates a lot of resentment, and is totally unnecessary. Everyone should get a chance to have an outlet,but not at the expense if family and members and guests who are starving and waiting.
If the author would have just written the obvious disclaimer. ” Of course you need to be there for your wife and respect and etc etc etc” would you be happy?
Why do you assume he doesn’t understand basic human behavior? Because he didn’t write it? He also didn’t write that one needs to make sure to close the door when you leave to shul in the morning. While all the frustrations mentioned here are valid in some cases no need to bash this chasidishe future great husband
Because he wrote in a very very condescending way.
Lacks respect for women.
Chassidishe bochur, there are women out there who celebrate the fact of being married to a real chossid. They will do their part, with joy. Your job will be to actually make the davenning and farbrengen inspire you to your core so you can bring that chayus, chassidus, hiskashrus home to your family. And make sure to show your wife how much you appreciate her part! :))
Farbrengen wasn’t invented today it’s our Lubavitch DNA us Chasidim period and is fundamental to our growth on so many different levels and is a must: Saying that a: ignoring the author being it’s not his place to have any opinion on anything related to marriage etc which speaks within self ..never the less it has been posted therefore b: hopefully we are talking about a house that Friday night is totally family night with the family etc c: Shabbis morning Father is up early going to the Mikveh and learning chasidus before Davening ( and family is aware of all… Read more »
I think bachurim and girls have a full right to have an opinion. They grew up in homes and watched there parents… but, this boy clearly writes that he never really had this situation before because he was on shlichus. So in this case I don’t think he has a right to have an opinion
This is great for a buchur or a newly wed or if the family is visiting. But if it’s your wife with a few kids without help then either start davaning earlier or go home. Also davaning isn’t spiritually higher than the shabbos table. Shalom bayis trumps individual extra (emphasis on extra) davaning.
I’m married bh over twenty years and I can tell you that when my children were young, my husband came home around 1:00, 1:30 to eat the meal. As they grew older he decided to spend more time at the farbrengen in shul each week. At first I was really upset. It took me a long time to be ok with it. In fact it took Years. We argued about it many times. He told me that it recharges him. I wished I could talk with other women and find out how they felt. I began to open myself up… Read more »
I completely agree with every truthful word you are saying! Its about time someone spoke out and took a stand. We need more awareness in our insular community!
To all those who are Kvetching that a man’s Davening is long enough…!
As opposed to liberalism and communism, The view of Torah is that everyone has a unique job in this world. There is a reason a woman’s Chiuv in Davening is not like that of a man. I would like to see how many woman would survive Davening with a Minyan every morning before going to work.
Regarding some extra time (beyond Davening) to Farbreng/socialize, that’s something both husband and wife deserve. With some proper communication skills they should be able to figure that out.
Why would women have any problem attending shacharis before work?
Separate but equal is a lie.
Couldn’t have agreed more
I’d like to see how long a father can watch his children while his wife leaves home?
I don’t think bochurim and young men understand the sacrifices that women make becoming wives/mothers. You talk of being used to being able to farbreng for hours and being with your friends while that is a sacrifice that is an insignificant sacrifice compared to what young women go through when getting married and having kids. It’s so much more difficult for us to ever see friends and recharge our neshamas and minds especially with little ones at home. This is not coming from a bitter place I’m very happy with the sacrifices I’ve made but just think about our perspective… Read more »
Firstly I would like to say that for the chassidish and know it all bochur you must be, you shouldn’t have been listening to a conversation between the 2 girls. It’s bad enough u we’re “stuck” behind them, you should have said some words of Tanya instead of eavesdropping on their conversation . This was clearly written from the perspective of a bochur who doesn’t understand what a marriage and relationship is about. As wives we’d love for our husbands to be inspired and farbreng! But there is a balance to everything!! Coming home drunk at 4 pm is just… Read more »
Ppl keep talking about making the woman angry and cooped up….
Keep in mind that resentful husbands are also not good for shalom Bayis
Of course each situation is different and it’s not a general rule
-a woman
Both are right, but ultimately it is up to each couple. If the husband is by a real farbrengen and truly needs it for his avodas Hashem, then he should make an arrangement with his wife.
That being said, we don’t fully understand things from the other perspective. People that are married have a better understanding, but that doesn’t mean the author is speaking out of place since he isn’t married.
We should all appreciate each other
My initial reaction to this article was complete disguist. But after some thought I now realize we need more space between Crown and Carroll so the Bochurim can overtake. Thereby leaving us with less op-eds.
You’re welcome…
Take a few steps back! Everybody should mind your own business if a wife is supportive of her husband being out later then great. If not then the wife should just confront her husband and tell him she want him home early. If he doesn’t respect that then that’s a whole other issue in regards to your relationship. Nothing more to be said!
This isn’t something that the general public has to debate it’s just something each couple should just talk about.
This is the way Lubavitch was for years and no modern or enlightened ideas will change our heritage
I’m a young mother with a very active cute little baby. I do not live in CH yet there is no Eiruv. My husband does come a little late home. Whether it’s good or not, it’s really up to the couple just like it is your Kosher standard. Every woman knows how much she CLD handle and every man knows his potential. Speaking one way or another would be biased being that obviously I’m involved. All i want to say is that I’m sure there are many men who come back late, while being AWARE of their wives being at… Read more »
AD MOSAI?! THIS COMING SHABBOS WILL BE THIRTY YEARS SINCE THE LAST FARBRANGEN WITH THE REBBE. And this what our trouble’s are? Have we lost touch? have lost our minds? In the later years before chof zayin adar we would have the zechus to farbrang with the Rebbe and yes no one went home shabbos by day we spent our afternoon in 770, at some most ran home for few minutes to be back in shul before the rebbe started farbranging this was how rebbe wished to spend shabbos, farbranging with chasidim, as chasidim we learn from the rebbe the… Read more »
Obviously going to 770 after the family Shabbos meal for several hours is a whole different story.
We wish that we could still do that today.
The Op-Ed was discussing husbands remaining in Shul for 2-3 hours straight, farbrenging with friends.
Hopefully, when you marry, you will offer to come home earlier to help your wife, and your wife will tell you that she would love it for you to Farbreng a little before coming home.
Forget about compromise. Marriage is Bitul!
I didn’t read all the comments, but I read some of them. Some are scolding the author that as a Bochur he has no idea what married life is like, and what the women experience. Some enjoy the Bochur’s naivete and wish that more would be like him. Rather than attack the writer and his writing style, let’s address the issue at hand, and I’m surprised I didn’t see (in the comments that I read) the word compromise. The concept: That a yungerman should wake up early, got to Mikva, daven longer than during the week, and possibly even stay… Read more »