ב"ה
Friday, 28 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 8, 2024

Is Basic Sensitivity Too Much to Ask For?

From the COLlive inbox: "By the time the school realized what was going on, the damage was done. Girls were crying in the hallway or valiantly fighting back their tears - because someone couldn't time an email." Full Story

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Yup
March 5, 2022 6:50 pm

They should reply within a week.
It’s ridiculous.

EH..
Reply to  Yup
March 5, 2022 9:26 pm

Completely impractical

Definitely
Reply to  Yup
March 7, 2022 2:48 pm

This is an important topic and something definitely should change. I’m just wondering why this is posted on a community site when almost nobody who reads this can do anything about it. I think this is a stunning article that should be sent to the heads of Yeshivos and Seminaries, and an updated op-Ed should be written when something actually changes to let us know 🙂

Great article
March 5, 2022 7:04 pm

Just two point, application to Yeshiva does not start hei Teves.

Secondly, it’s understandable the frustration that by the time many mosdos begin accepting, it is already too late for plan B.
But what’s their alternative, every yeshivah to accept at a different time? Who goes first? Every one gets their turn to apply to a certain yeshivah?

That unfortunately is less practical

Pedantic
Reply to  Great article
March 6, 2022 9:12 am

Fine, so not 5 teves but yud shevat or rosh chodesh adar and the latest is purim

cut the time
Reply to  Great article
March 6, 2022 10:37 am

Why is it that in the litvish community the process starts earlier and ends faster? If we are going to start later, fine. But to wait four agonizing months is ridiculous. I understand that hanhallos are busy but ther needs to be a way to cut back on how long the process is. Its not fair to riddle so many people with anxiety.

HS mommy
Reply to  cut the time
March 6, 2022 10:47 pm

So I’m sending to the Litvish school, we apply for HS after chagim (mid October, beginning November) ,have acceptance tests spread out till the third week of November, like the 20-25th and then we get an acceptance/rejection letter by the first week of February (before R”Ch Adar). Almost all of the girls’ HS area part of the VAAD, where they list their first, second and third choices and the wait list of girls. On the same day, this year I think it was Feb 4, they send out the letters to the applicants and give the parents about 2 weeks… Read more »

It works for applying to schools and jobs
March 5, 2022 7:07 pm

You have roshei yeshivos or mechanchim who “bad mouth” a student or girl who want to work and they deliberately say something not nice in order to ruin the opportunity like a shidduch- to kill the whole shidduch. How can rosh yeshivos who have so much “yiras shamayim” be SO CRUEL?! You are ruining lives!!!! If you have nothing nice to say about a person dont say anything at all! This is all your Torah knowledge?! Bad mouthing the next door and wondering why they are going off the derech?! You didn’t even begin learning the basic principle of loving… Read more »

Nice article
March 5, 2022 7:37 pm

Sounds like this is something that can be easily changed

Same story
March 5, 2022 7:49 pm

Had 4 girls in a row so didn’t realize how hard it is to get into yeshiva last year. When my older sons went it wasn’t such an issue. So we applied to one yeshiva and didn’t get it, despite the fact that my son is good boy. So as you said, by then all the Yeshivos were full. Bh a new yeshiva opened and he was accepted and he’s very happy! I’m glad to see new yeshivos opening to accommodate all our boys.

Seminary
Reply to  Same story
March 5, 2022 8:20 pm

I’m glad new Yeshivos are opening, but what about seminaries? There are so many teens with nowhere to go, simply because there aren’t enough places. There’s the “typical” seminaries, for girls who truly wish to learn and grow and are capable of sitting through hours of classes a day. There’s the “not-typical” seminaries for the girls who are pushed into wanting seminary, but arent up to a full day of learning, can’t measure up to the other sems academic standards, or aren’t interested in the high standards of learning. What about the in- between girls? Girls who are academically capable… Read more »

Prague!!
Reply to  Seminary
March 6, 2022 7:52 am

Prague seminary 🙂

Please can you share name of new Yeshiva
Reply to  Same story
March 5, 2022 8:44 pm

Perhaps can help others

Yup
March 5, 2022 7:59 pm

as a student who went through the anxiety of the day camp accepted just to hear that I didn’t get in was heartbreaking

Preparation
March 5, 2022 8:01 pm

Chani, if there were girls crying in the hallway, then the school already hadn’t done a job of preparing the classes as a whole for the time when the decisions would come out. There are always those who are happy and not happy. Part of growing up is learning to take disappointments, and also learning how to be genuinely b’simcha for your friends. We know this happens all thru shidduchim and all kinds of times as well. The girls might as well start flexing those muscles now. Of course no one wants to see anyone crying, but there’s no perfect… Read more »

Response from Chani Vogel
Reply to  Preparation
March 5, 2022 9:21 pm

The school did what they could. They asked that acceptance letters go out after the school hours. Because the school cares about their students, and recognize that the girls are human, and the disappointment will hit hard. The seminaries have a really tough job in the acceptance department, but they need to show sensitivity to the girls who applied to their schools. As to your comment about a perfect solution for every child in every time zone, the schools are looking at each girl as an individual. They can send the emails to individuals in different time zones, especially the… Read more »

rejections????
Reply to  Response from Chani Vogel
March 6, 2022 2:47 am

let’s for starters get that word out of our vocabulary

one who is not accepted at an institution doers not mean that they are rejected

This is sad that camp can’t take all
Reply to  Preparation
March 5, 2022 9:47 pm

This is sad that few Chabad Camps can not accept all girls from the same school & grade, common do your math, you know how many girls are in BethRivkah school do a BethRivkah camp for them as a summer program
Why child needs to suffer? Why we can’t support own CH kids from the same school?

Not gonna work
Reply to  This is sad that camp can’t take all
March 6, 2022 7:29 am

All the beis rivkah girls want to go to a camp where no other beis rivkah girls are , they don’t want to be with everyone over the summer also .

Wait
Reply to  Preparation
March 5, 2022 9:48 pm

Hold on, the girls who did not get accepted need to learn to be happy for others, how about those who get accepted don’t jump up and down, screech and hug all their friends? What about they have some sensetivity towards those who are not so fortunate?

It’s not just about that
Reply to  Wait
March 6, 2022 7:30 am

Yes there were a lot of girls that were hugging their friends that didn’t get accepted but inside they were really happy that they did, and it did show a drop.

They're 17!
Reply to  Preparation
March 5, 2022 11:36 pm

The level of insensitivity is mind boggling! These are teenage girls, still in high school. They’re allowed to feel upset that they didn’t get in, they’re even allowed to show it! Surprise suprise, it can also go the other way; the girls who are accepted can show sympathy. As someone who didn’t get into ANY seminary (and it was for the best in the end, but I couldn’t see that nearly 10 years ago), it was a crushing blow. I was lucky I had friends who were in similar situations.

The Truth
March 5, 2022 8:07 pm

If there’s one thing that can be said about the administrators of the major seminaries—and we all know them because we’ve been to their seminaries—it is that they aren’t known for their sensitivity. This is true for the admissions process, as well as the actual seminary experience. If seminaries were sensitive to the girls to whom they don’t offer admission, they would tell them that they’re rejected from their seminary as soon as they make that decision—so as to allow the reject to apply to alternative seminaries. But we all know that it often happens that seminaries leave a girl… Read more »

Open local one in US
Reply to  The Truth
March 5, 2022 9:51 pm

Open local one why to go far? Why as parents we need this stress? What we are teaching our girls? Why to spend so much money for the seminary in Israel? Open one here and make trips to Israel as “Taglit “for free

First hand
March 5, 2022 8:21 pm

I saw the girls last year in school on that fateful friday. It was not a pleasant sight, especially knowing how easily it could’ve been avoided.

Berel
March 5, 2022 8:25 pm

30k per year sem is a total grift.

Girls should stay at home and make Beis Rivka great again.

100%
Reply to  Berel
March 5, 2022 9:53 pm

Girls can stay and learn seminary &college degree at home and help Beth Rivkah with teaching little kids as part of their experience and do overnight trips sometimes

Seichel?
March 5, 2022 8:25 pm

Just out of curiosity, but why are the parents telling their daughters potentially devastating news over the phone? Shouldn’t they just say “Let’s read the email together when you get home”, and do this regardless of whether or not they were accepted? Perhaps this should be a policy of the school, asking parents not to reveal the contents of seminary application decisions during (or before) school hours. This way no one will know and everyone can wait to find out when they get home. I’m not sure it’s so practical to put it on the seminaries, especially if they are… Read more »

The girls get them too
Reply to  Seichel?
March 6, 2022 12:21 am

At least for some sems. I got the results too and saw them before my parents did. And believe it or not a lot of girls have their phones on them in a school.

The Rebbe in an igros...
March 5, 2022 8:46 pm

I asked for a broche after one of my girls was turned down from a seminary, the letter in Igros said ,…(accordingto my memory, ) I dont agree to the reason of not accepting students because there is not enough space. It is nesecary to do everything possible to accept each student, otherwise they will go to the wrong mosdos and the outcome will not be favorable.
BH the principal believed in taking into account the Rebbes igros…

wow
Reply to  The Rebbe in an igros...
March 5, 2022 9:02 pm

100% true

Bais Rivka NY Seminary
March 5, 2022 9:08 pm

My first few daughters were accepted into one of those high-quality seminaries in EY, but at their core, they were unhappy. We didn’t see any growth when they were there. The administration didn’t care for their physical or emotional needs. Money for us wasn’t the issue. My other daughters, I sent and am planning to send to Bais Rivka Seminary. Their curriculum is amazing. Girls can choose the classes and subjects they want. The teachers are all world-renowned in their fields. Better to send your daughters where they could grow and the administration truly cares about each girl bgu”r, then… Read more »

safe space?
March 5, 2022 9:24 pm

Why are you assuming that everyones home is a safe space?

For many teenagers school/friends is their safe space

Berel
Reply to  safe space?
March 5, 2022 10:50 pm

Hi, that’s really the safe, sane assumption.

No it’s not always correct which is how assumptions work

safe space
Reply to  Berel
March 6, 2022 6:07 am

For 17/18 year olds? Going home to cry to mommy? I dont believe thats the safe, sane assumption.

Girls at that age are more likely to seek comfort from their friends.

Sem system
March 5, 2022 9:37 pm

The sem system is really toxic and causes our wonderful girls unnecessary stress and anxiety.
I really wish the principals and teachers who see what the girls go through would find away to stop this.

Guess what?
Reply to  Sem system
March 6, 2022 12:14 pm

It’s toxic for the parents as well.

Maybe share a list of all Chabad mesivtas ?
March 5, 2022 10:00 pm

Can you share a list of all Chabad Mesivtas to consider and to apply? Thank you

Bubby
March 5, 2022 10:13 pm

Can someone please write an op-ed regarding the shidduch system. The shadchanim really have to up their game. Shiduch gelt isn’t free money, please do your job!

It should be one system with 3 choices
March 5, 2022 10:16 pm

All Chabad Mosdos need to have one application system with 3 choices /a few choices like a college application and have a system of grades or similar to SAT /else All Mosodos are Chabad and can do it The application center need to be independent and not related then it will be easy fit all The problem that many girls even not going anywhere today and what we are crying after they are not so frum or not having any seminar Maybe do for these girls college and Chabad Program we have many shluhim on campus but do we have… Read more »

Hol up
March 5, 2022 10:59 pm

The problem is really seminary altogether. I had zero guidance when choosing where I should go. I didn’t know anything about the seminaries and had no siblings/cousins to ask.

Kol Hakovod, Chani
March 6, 2022 1:40 am

Those days are well behind me, B”H but this brings back some distressing memories.Trying to get my sons into the yeshiva that we felt was best FOR THEM – because we recognized that different kids have different needs- cost us over $50,000 for ONE year and literally put me in the hospital with a suspected heart attack. However, one of the comments hit very close to home. There was a recent Siyum Sefer Torah in my daughter’s city and the sofer told my daughter (whom he saw grow up in Crown Heights) that if she raised her children to be… Read more »

Concur
Reply to  Kol Hakovod, Chani
March 6, 2022 12:19 pm

20 years ago we spent $50k times four years. It was 30% of my husband’s pay and 100% of my pay. Now adjust for inflation – it’s more than double in today’s money.

If this is your only problem with seminary…
March 6, 2022 2:23 am

Unfortunately what goes on in these seminaries is a lot more problematic than the acceptance or rejection letters. The stories I hear from my daughter and her friends. It’s horrifying. We entrust our girls into the hands of people who have the potential to inflict so much damage on them at such a crucial time in their lives. I wish this was something that had more accountability in our community.

Lack of sensitivity
March 6, 2022 4:22 am

It is too much to ask for in Lubavitch. If you’re not tough, you don’t make the grade. Most people in administrative positions are. They think that hurting people will toughen them up, but it doesn’t usually work that way. It just causes more trouble. I wonder if the Rebbe made Ahavas Yisrael a mivtzah because it was, and unfortunately still is, so lacking in Lubavitch.

Father
March 6, 2022 5:40 am

No matter what they say, the first and foremost (and one could argue only) concern of the mosdos is… the mosdos. And it shows so much. This is why being accepted is not the only problem. It’s the first and least of them. Because once your child is actually accepted, you need to pray your guts that they remain actually ‘accepted’ as a student and not as so furniture that might get in their way. May Hashem who saved us from all evil, from Paroh to the KGB also save our children from ‘the mosdos’. And if you have a… Read more »

Merkos Melbourne
March 6, 2022 6:28 am

Merkos Women Melbourne is a wonderful seminary. Mrs Kornhauser is the most caring director. My daughter was in seminary in Israel for a year and then did six months in Merkos. She said the learning in Merkos was outstanding!

Very well said
March 6, 2022 8:37 am

So, I agree number one that acceptance and rejection should be after school.

Number 2 it should not take 3-4 months, it’s torture the girls wait for seminary to find out and boys wait it’s insane. But unfortunately the system became so messed up. Shluchim are working so hard for our communities but the chabad mosdos don’t care about our kids the way we care about our kids/communities because if our mosdos cared things would be a lot different, a lot better and our kids would be happier and better

Reflection
Reply to  Very well said
March 6, 2022 11:02 am

Your point about shluchim vrs moisdos is in proportion to our communities funding priorities.

Reading through the comments there are at least 2-3 others asking why the community doesn’t have more space/camp/sem, the answer seems simply because as a community we don’t prioritize our community before other communities.

More seminaries in the US
March 6, 2022 10:38 am

We need more seminaries to open in the USA. Please. I don’t hold of sending teenagers overseas in this unstable world. A school-organized trip to Israel is enough time for girls to see the important parts of our Holy Land.
Can someone please open more local seminaries.

Acceptance
March 6, 2022 10:41 am

How many sem principals accept girls based on their last name and financial means? That shouldn’t take 3 months.

Mosdos
March 6, 2022 10:54 am

Everyone is invited to open new seminaries and yeshivas to solve these problems. Don’t complain. Do something yourself.

Wow, at least someone cares
March 6, 2022 5:28 pm

Wow Chani, it is obvious that you really care about your students. We need more teachers like you.

Timezones
March 7, 2022 10:58 am

I don’t know about the camps in the US , but acceptance letters for sem are mostly from overseas and the timezones are different. So that wouldn’t make more sense to time it according to Beis Rivka CH .. there’s plenty of girls coming from European timezones, and other places..

Who is in charge.
March 14, 2022 6:16 am

Is it not hashgacha pratis where our children attend? When my daughter wasnt accepted to a seminary in EI, it’s understood her neshama needed to grow here in CH, And it did,! She had a wonderful year at Bais Rivka.
Disappointment isn’t the fault of the seminaries, but from the system that we bought into that our kids lives depend on the name brand seminary they need at attend
We need to trust that Hashem will direct our children to the best place for them

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