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Wednesday, 9 Nisan, 5784
  |  April 17, 2024

Manhattan Rabbis Wanted to Meet the Rebbe About Eruv

In 1964, a group of rabbonim from Manhattan requested to meet with the Rebbe regarding constructing an eruv. Instead, the Rebbe wrote them a letter which is now being publicized for the first time. Full Story

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5724
February 2, 2023 2:33 pm

5724 – 1964
And they had .doc extension format then? wow

I disagree with your accusation
Reply to  5724
February 2, 2023 6:11 pm

Most likely this is an old letter that was scanned into a server. That’s what it looks like to me and that’s what would make most sense. I highly doubt that those letters would have been left to chance as originals with no copies. Clearly the letters were scanned into computer files.

please dont interpet the rebbe's words
February 2, 2023 3:06 pm

“the purpose of the eiruv” etc. does not equal “one should not use”.

Rabbi mendel
Reply to  please dont interpet the rebbe's words
February 2, 2023 4:22 pm

Usually you use something for its purpose

please dont interpet the rebbe's words
Reply to  Rabbi mendel
February 2, 2023 5:13 pm

well the whole discussion in the letter is if the rabbanim should pursue an eiruv and for what purpose. the rebbe does not hint in any way if one may use it once an eiruv is made. In fact halacha has alot to say about if you may or should use a kosher eiruv

Uhh
Reply to  please dont interpet the rebbe's words
February 2, 2023 8:28 pm

If and eiruv wasn’t allowed to be used, the concept of a kosher eiruv wouldn’t exist. They’re clearly meant to be used.

Certainly whoever originally “invented” the eiruv intended it to be used.

Lol
Reply to  Uhh
February 3, 2023 2:34 pm

Right but if you read the rletter, you would realize the rebbe is saying that in our generation, it must be secret, not that it always needed to be that way

rotfl
Reply to  Lol
February 3, 2023 3:15 pm

if the eiruv is secret obviously you cant use it, but once you know there is a kosher eiruv, its meant to be used.

Lol
Reply to  rotfl
February 5, 2023 8:01 am

But then how do you explain the rebbes words, that people will be tempted to use it? I thought it’s meant to be used?

read the letter please
Reply to  Lol
February 5, 2023 10:30 am

That paragraph starts “Fourthly, assuming that it be agreed that the eiruv should be instituted without publicity, as above, the question may be asked whether it would be warranted to follow the more lenient view of some “posekim” regarding the qualifications of the place, in order to remove the transgression of those who carry”

in other words the rebbe is reffering to an eiruv that is not kosher lechatchila and the rebbe is concerned that people will use it lechatchilah

No
Reply to  read the letter please
February 5, 2023 4:48 pm

That’s not my point. I’m bringing out that if once you know you should use it, the rebbe should have written they will mistakenly use it, not be tempted to use it

u missed that?!
Reply to  No
February 5, 2023 5:37 pm

“it is inevitable that the existence of an eiruv would not become known to limited circles, with the result that some individuals would be tempted to accept it on its face value”

 

Wow
Reply to  u missed that?!
February 5, 2023 7:35 pm

Correct. Exactly what I wrote. That’s a proof for me, not you

No
Reply to  rotfl
February 5, 2023 4:48 pm

If it’s secret, it’s secret for a reason

This particular Eruv
Reply to  Lol
February 3, 2023 4:00 pm

It seems that the Rebbe is saying this particular eiruv (the Manhattan one) should be in secret. Not that all of them need to be…

Lol
Reply to  This particular Eruv
February 5, 2023 8:02 am

No. The reason for being secret clearly has no connection whatsoever with the low level kashrus of it. It’s because it may fall. How do you manage to read it differently?

Shabsi
Reply to  Lol
February 6, 2023 2:29 pm

Both actually.

the rebbe's words
Reply to  please dont interpet the rebbe's words
February 2, 2023 9:54 pm

i dont know about interpretation, but the rebbe did scream many times at farbrengins that the residents on the schuna have to listen to the badat”z, and last i checked they say it’s not allowed, so…

please dont interpet the rebbe's words
Reply to  the rebbe's words
February 2, 2023 10:46 pm

that is a seperate issue that does not justify misinterperting the rebbes letter on eiruvin

Lol
Reply to  please dont interpet the rebbe's words
February 3, 2023 2:35 pm

The rebbe does actually mention listening to the rabbonim in this very letter

Shabsi
Reply to  please dont interpet the rebbe's words
February 6, 2023 2:27 pm

Correct.
“Purpose” in this context refers to the motivation to erect such as Eiruv. Since in such a place (Manhattan, Melbourne and the like) it is a stumbling block, the Rebbe opines
strongly that it should be erected privately.
If however it was erected publicly, there’s no indication from this letter not to use it.
(The fact a Yiras Shomayim won’t use is for the reason the Alter Rebbe writes in Shulchan Aruch, not this letter.)

ch resident
February 2, 2023 3:29 pm

this is the “known” mindel letter, that was already addressed by the rabbonim. its dishonest to attempt to portray this as a new letter, as the only new part is that they asked the question via the rashag, every other word is exactly the same, and was written on chol hamoed. and the rebbe clearly writes that he has in mind the precautions of “such an” eruv even under the best of circumstances all the more so now, which is clear that this eruv wasn’t a eruv kosher lchatchilla, rather only bdieved as the rebbe himself wrote a few years… Read more »

Yoel
Reply to  ch resident
February 2, 2023 4:58 pm

Spot on. And IIRC, Rav Moshe Feinstein reached out to the Rebbe for his astute, educated opinion.

Manhattan eruv
February 2, 2023 4:24 pm

The Eruv in Manhattan at that time used the river banks as the Eruv which is a lenient opinion in shulchan aruch and the Alter Rebbe holds should not be used lchatchila.
Later the Eruv was done lchatchila making tzuras hapesach etc.. when they were able to get permission from the authorities to get permits and now is kosher according to all opinions in shulchan aruch.
With out knowing the facts this letter can be misleading.

Lol
Reply to  Manhattan eruv
February 3, 2023 2:36 pm

But what’s the connection to people not using it if it is found to have fallen?

Manhattan eruv
Reply to  Lol
February 4, 2023 7:37 pm

When the water levels rises in the winter the Eruv becomes posul, since it won’t have the proper height to the river banks walls. Like the alter Rebbe explains in shulchan aruch.

Lol
Reply to  Manhattan eruv
February 5, 2023 8:04 am

But that’s not what the rebbe said! He wrote the issue is people might not discontinue using it if it falls, that applies to every eiruv

ch resident
Reply to  Lol
February 4, 2023 11:35 pm

If you study the alter rebbe shulchon oruch properly, you will see that that is the reason why you can’t rely on ocean walls, as the waves may come and push aside the mechtiza, which is a mound, tel hamislaket. This is described more at length in the tshuva of the chok yaakov, regarding an eruv in Amsterdam.

so the rebbe is explaining how and why this gzeira applies more in our generation then in the past.

No
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 4:52 pm

Ye but that’s not what the rebbe days. The rebbe says the issue is it may be found to be broken, so not sure why you keep on bringing up the Alter rebbe.
You can claim what you want, but The rebbe doesn’t say that, rather the issue is it may brake

No
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 5:06 pm

Did you not read the comment you are responding to?
The rebbe writes the issue is that it may fall, and that means the rebbe is explaining the Alter rebbe about non mehudar eiruvin? Logic?

Thanks
Reply to  Manhattan eruv
February 5, 2023 8:49 am

Ever thought of it this way?
The rebbe writes in this letter that his opinion is that wherever an eiruv is possible to be put up it should be (albeit secretly). For some reason no eiruv was encouraged by the rebbe for crown heights before gimmel tammuz?

Interesting
February 2, 2023 4:33 pm

Interesting. Can anyone verify if this letter was ACTUALY SENT by Rebbe? There are many letters (especially unsigned in the archievs) which (for some reason) were not sent.

if yes – we cannot rely on this letter

You nailed it
Reply to  Interesting
February 2, 2023 5:12 pm

Let’s hear.

Yes
Reply to  Interesting
February 2, 2023 8:31 pm

Not only can we not rely on an unsent letter, but on dozens, maybe hundreds of occasions, the Rebbe told people that he is not a ruv and will not paskin on things.

Shabsi
Reply to  Yes
February 6, 2023 2:33 pm

The Rebbe never said he wasn’t a Rov.

There is a Boss
February 2, 2023 5:02 pm

This paragraph is very hard for those who push an Eiruv:

b) it is inevitable that the existence of an eiruv would not become known to limited circles, with the result that some individuals would be tempted to accept it on its face value, especially in this country where there is a strong tendency to find hetterim and make religious observance more “convenient.” Hence, it is my considered opinion that not only should the eiruv be done in the utmost secrecy, but that it should be done only if the place strictly qualifies for it in accordance with the din.

seems to be no problem
Reply to  There is a Boss
February 2, 2023 7:46 pm

these days there can be a text before Shabbos…

You missed this part
Reply to  seems to be no problem
February 2, 2023 10:14 pm

“Moreover, many of those who might get into the habit of carrying on Shabbat on the strength of an eiruv, might not so readily discontinue to do so even if they became aware of the breakdown in the eiruv”

Lol
Reply to  seems to be no problem
February 3, 2023 1:51 pm

The issue is if it is found to have fallen on shabbos also, and I don’t think we use our phones on shabbos

ch resident
Reply to  Lol
February 3, 2023 3:54 pm

no the rebbe never ever said that he was worried that the eruv would fall on shabbos, we rely on chazaka. as did all the gedolei including the arizal who carried in the eruv in tzfas and outside of tzfas, without checking again whether it was still intact, see http://www.chabaderuv.com for more on this. and only someone who isn’t familiar with any halocha would come to sucha conclusion, we use chazaka in many things in torah that include issurei doraysa. including a woman not doing bedikos after zayin nekim. including on treifos etc. additionally if the rebbe was worried about… Read more »

Lol
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 7:58 am

No, chazaka doesn’t help if it was found to be broken and people continue using it

ch resident
Reply to  Lol
February 5, 2023 8:13 pm

it would only be an issue for the person who found it broken.. and that’s not what the rebbe is referring too. additionally if you were correct, it would apply to all the public eruvin that the rebbe supported:

(1 Miami (2 kfar chabad (3 moshav bar guria (4 bnei brak (5 beverly hills ca (6 queens (7 rockaway nj 

Wow
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 9:44 pm

Only an issue for the person who found it broken? Mokor?

Shabsi
Reply to  Lol
February 6, 2023 2:36 pm

Irrelevant.
Chazoko here relates to ones ability to carry, not the reason the Eiruv should be made privately.

no
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 7:57 pm

there is no chazaka if it is found to broken and people continue carrying!
thats the rebbes whole point!

Shabsi
Reply to  no
February 6, 2023 3:18 pm

Chazoko here refers to a person continuing to carry without hearing that there was an issue. For him he relies on the chazoko aka until he finds out otherwise.

Opinion is the key word
Reply to  There is a Boss
February 2, 2023 8:34 pm

The Rebbe MhM constantly told people he is not a ruv and will not paskin. If the Rebbe MhM himself refused to paskin on things we have no right to “force” it on him when we cannot see and hear him.

Lol
Reply to  Opinion is the key word
February 3, 2023 2:29 pm

Right, but if your consider yourself lubavitch, you listen to the rebbes opinion

Lol
Reply to  There is a Boss
February 3, 2023 2:36 pm

All the down ticks, all he did was quote the rebbes letter!

Slightly Off Topic w. a similar end result.
Reply to  There is a Boss
February 20, 2023 9:54 am

I was recently looking at the R” Bloomenkrantz (spelled wrong) book to see if an item was listed as kosher, he had there an interesting write up regarding events in non kosher kitchens (hotels, convention centers etc.) he writes there that many things are done in a bideved manner in such environments that would never be allowed in a frum establishment (treif kitchen right near the kashered kitchen is one of the many issues listed) his point being that people eat at such events since they trust the people making the event (could be a dinner for a mosod…) without… Read more »

ch resident
February 2, 2023 5:45 pm

It would be nice if rabbi zajac would bring all of the rebbes letters together and try to explain his shita, instead of cherry picking between letters. there is no denying that the rebbe supported many public eruvin: (1 Miami (2 kfar chabad (3 moshav bar guria (4 bnei brak (5 beverly hills ca (6 queens (7 rockaway nj and the rebbe himself quoted the sources of the: (1 Rosh (2 Tashbatz (3 Chassam Sofer (4 Beis av (5 Shita mekubetzes which make it very clear that not making an eruv is an act of heresy, and as is clear… Read more »

Lol
Reply to  ch resident
February 3, 2023 1:53 pm

Supported the fact that it was Public? Mokor pls.

Ch resident
Reply to  Lol
February 3, 2023 3:19 pm

I need to bring proof that the rebbe supported it to be public? By definition eruvs are typically public, and the rebbe supported all those eruvin, without requiring that they be kept secret. Are you suggesting that the rebbe didnt know thas the kfar chabad eruv was public? That the bnei brak eruv was public? That the Beverly hills California eruv was public? Additionally as is found in the chassam sofer the rebbe quoted himself, an eruv is for oneg shabbos.. so clearly that isn’t applying to a secret eruv. Additionally bhashgocha protis this week’s parsha in likutei sichos chelek… Read more »

Lol
Reply to  Ch resident
February 5, 2023 8:05 am

So basically your saying that you don’t have proof.

Thanks
Reply to  Ch resident
February 5, 2023 8:51 am

The rebbe writes in this very letter that in his opinion wherever an eiruv can be erected it should be albeit privately so your proof that the rebbe supported the fact that it was public because otherwise would sound ridiculous, is ridiculous

No
Reply to  Ch resident
February 5, 2023 9:03 am

The rebbe writes in this very letter that in his opinion wherever an eiruv can be erected it should be albeit privately so your proof that the rebbe supported the fact that it was public because otherwise would sound ridiculous, is ridiculous

ch resident
February 2, 2023 5:54 pm

As the rebbe constantly wrote himself that you can not learn from his private answers to others, and it was for a very simple reason as he addressed each letter to each particular circumstance. For someone to think that the rebbe would be mchadesh that carrying in a kosher eruv is a takala cv, something that goes against all the gedolei haposkim, and in a btw manner via private letter i have some bridges to sell you. list of gedolei yisroel who made a point of carrying in an eruv: (1 Arizal (2 Chassam Sofer (3 Harav Mendel Vitepsk (4… Read more »

Spot on.
Reply to  ch resident
February 2, 2023 8:37 pm

Not only are personal letters not applicable to the klal, but the Rebbe repeatedly refused to paskin and told people that he is not a ruv.

Lol
Reply to  ch resident
February 3, 2023 1:55 pm

Come on, if you had a brain, you would realize the rebbe isn’t arguing eith them, rather saying circumstances changed.

Ch resident
Reply to  Lol
February 3, 2023 3:29 pm

The rebbe quoted these sources in reply to people attempting to say that America is different ,this was precisely the argument. And why rabbi moskowitz ztl asked the rebbe what is the proper approach.. additionally if you actually studied the sources you would see that the whole point is that this is a mitzvah, and cv to be worried that it will lead to bad things. And I will end with a quote from the beis av that the rebbe himself quoted. מהבית אב שציטט הרבי נגד אלו שרצו לומר בדיוק כך. “…וכ”ש הוא דאין לנו להחמיר ח”ו שלא לתקן… Read more »

Lol
Reply to  Ch resident
February 5, 2023 8:07 am

How is this a response to what I said? I said that the rebbe isn’t arguing, rather saying circumstances changed. Your response?

What kind of nonsense is this?
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 5:57 pm

A letter to all Rabbonim of Manhattan is a public letter. It’s the very definition of a public letter and reflects the Rebbe’s halachic position. As stated before, such a letter was well known before now. The Rebbe worked with the rabbonim on the Agudas HaRabbonim who wrote in 1979 that no eiruv could be built in New York (unless there’s a total separation gate like there is in Sea Gate). The Rebbe spoke in a sicha in the Mems, stating that just because in the time of the Alter Rebbe there was no reshus harabim d’Oraisa, that it would… Read more »

ch resident
Reply to  What kind of nonsense is this?
February 5, 2023 8:22 pm

to start with the rebbe doesn’t mention any rhr issue in this letter, additionally this letter was not published at the time, unlike the letters in igros kodesh. we don’t even know if this was sent out. according to the rebbe and alter rebbe and tt we dont have rhr in our cities, it is possible to have one sure, and thats what the rebbe is discussing in that sicha. for an in depth explanation see here https://www.chabaderuv.com/%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A8%20%D7%93%D7%A2%D7%AA%20%D7%9B%D7%A7%20%D7%90%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A8%20%D7%96%D7%99%D7%A2%20%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9F%20%D7%A8%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA%20%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D%20%D7%91%D7%96%D7%9E%D7%9F%20%D7%94%D7%96%D7%94%20%D7%95%D7%90%D7%A4%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%AA%20%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9F%20%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9F/ the arizal carried outside the city of tzfas which was much wider then 16 amos, and had a din of sratya which… Read more »

Wow
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 9:55 pm

Sorry man, this letter was nothing to do with if ch is a rh”r

Shabsi
Reply to  What kind of nonsense is this?
February 6, 2023 3:24 pm

Well said

ch resident
February 2, 2023 6:26 pm

reply to there is a boss. The manhattan eruv was in accordance with the alter rebbes shulchon oruch see simman 363 sif 35, the alter rebbe brings the opinion of the mchaber, that you can use the ocean as a mechitza, and he brings the opinion of the ramma who argues that you cant, the alter rebbe concludes that the ramma is the ikkar. however an eruv relying on the ocean walls is still an eruv according to the alter rebbe shulchon oruch, just bdieved, hence the rebbe told them not to make a brocha on this eruv and not… Read more »

Lol
Reply to  ch resident
February 3, 2023 2:32 pm

Right but the rebbe writes don’t ask me if it’s kosher, im not a rav, but then writes even if it’s kosher, it should be secret for reasons nothing got to do with the validity of it, rather that it may have been found to have fallen

ch resident
Reply to  Lol
February 5, 2023 8:25 pm

the rebbe said that he already stated his position and it hasnt changed, that was in igros kodesh chelek tes zayin amud shin zayin, and there he makes it clear that its not kosher lchatchilla even though it was koshed according to shulchon oruch bdieved. i surmise that the reason why the rebbe didnt repeat that again, was that this was after people were already carrying in eruv for a few years, and the rebbe wouldnt cv insinuate that they are mchalelei shabbos. take my explanation or dont, but either way the rebbe wrote explicitly that the eruv was not… Read more »

Wow
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 9:51 pm

Ok, and your point?
That therfore what the rebbe writes in this letter instead actually isn’t what he means?

Shabsi
Reply to  Lol
February 6, 2023 3:26 pm

More accurately , the Rebbe is a Rov who generally refrains from Paskening.

The significance of this letter
February 3, 2023 2:01 am

This letter is actually extremely significant to understanding the Rebbes shitah on Eruvin in metropolitan areas. The ONLY purported sources for that pro Eruv cabal quote ad nauseum is from the ACADEMIC discussions the Rebbe had with Rabbi Eisenstadt and Rabbi Moscowitz in their correspondence on the permissibility of making an Eruv in Manhattan. Anybody that has studied this issue objectively is aware that there are dozens of mentions in multiple media that the Rebbe was from those that were opposed to its formation, and arguendo even made the point to them in those letters, that if you are such… Read more »

academic?
Reply to  The significance of this letter
February 3, 2023 10:04 am

a letter printed in igros kodesh disscussing details of manhattan eiruv and only quoting lots of halachik sources is academic cha”v ?!! . and of course i dont question the english letter.

Ch resident
Reply to  The significance of this letter
February 3, 2023 12:07 pm

This is a perfect example of the lack of intellectual honesty of those objecting to eruvin. The rebbe explicitly states here that he’s referring to such an eruv, and yes he already expressed his objection to this eruv a few years back, igros kodesh chelec tes Zayin amud shin Zayin. And there he states explicitly that since you’re using the ocean as a mechitza I can’t support eruv, as this is against the position of the alter rebbe shulchon oruch.. So to come and say that this letter signifies every eruv, is a gross distortion of the rebbes letter. Aside… Read more »

Lol
Reply to  Ch resident
February 3, 2023 1:58 pm

Right, but the rebbe said the reason he wanted it secret! Not because it’s not mehudar, (the rebbe writes only do it If it’s not relying on lenient opinions) rather because it might have been found to have fallen!

Ch resident
Reply to  Lol
February 3, 2023 2:26 pm

If you study the alter rebbe shulchon oruch properly, you will see that that is the reason why you can’t rely on ocean walls, as the waves may come and push aside the mechtiza, which is a mound, tel hamislaket. This is described more at length in the tshuva of the chok yaakov, regarding an eruv in Amsterdam.

Lol
Reply to  Ch resident
February 5, 2023 8:08 am

Again, the rebbe is not getting into the halachic aspect here, not sure why you keep on bringing it up

Lol
Reply to  Lol
February 3, 2023 2:57 pm

All I did was repeat what the rebbe said, why the down tick?

Thanks
Reply to  Ch resident
February 3, 2023 2:13 pm

Proof please? That the rebbe supported the fact that it was public?

Ch resident
Reply to  Thanks
February 3, 2023 2:31 pm

I need to bring proof that the rebbe supported it to be public? By definition eruvs are typically public, and the rebbe supported all those eruvin, without requiring that they be kept secret. Are you suggesting that the rebbe didnt know thas the kfar chabad eruv was public? That the bnei brak eruv was public? That the Beverly hills California eruv was public? Additionally as is found in the chassam sofer the rebbe quoted himself, an eruv is for oneg shabbos.. so clearly that isn’t applying to a secret eruv. Additionally bhashgocha protis this week’s parsha in likutei sichos chelek… Read more »

No
Reply to  Ch resident
February 5, 2023 8:54 am

The rebbe writes in this very letter that in his opinion wherever an eiruv can be erected it should be albeit privately so your proof that the rebbe supported the fact that it was public because otherwise would sound ridiculous, is ridiculous

simple reading of the letter indicates
Reply to  No
February 5, 2023 11:42 pm

In this letter the rebbe starts off his opinion of eiruv that “first of all” according to halacha u must make an eiruv, and the rebbe does not qualify that with any conditions except that the eiruv should be kosher lechatchila . Because that is the halacha (and obviously there is no halacha that if you cant make a secret eiruv u dont have to make an eiruv). Only after this the rebbe continues ” Secondly, special consideration has to be given to the state of affairs” etc..            So obviously in a place where a secret eiruv is not an option, the rebbes opinion… Read more »

no
Reply to  simple reading of the letter indicates
February 6, 2023 8:32 am

theres no such thing as not possible to make a secret eiruv. maybe its not possible to keep it secret, (as the rebbe writes himself in this letter) but it must not be made officially. the difference is great – if its official, much more people will be inclined to use it, compared to were it just a rumor.

Wow
Reply to  no
February 6, 2023 9:34 am

And besides, the rebbe writes in this letter that his opinion is that wherever an eiruv is possible to be put up it should be (albeit secretly). For some reason no eiruv (even secret) was encouraged by the rebbe for crown heights before gimmel tammuz?
Seems like the reebe didn’t believe an eiruv can be made in crown heights halachicly

chelem
Reply to  Wow
February 6, 2023 9:59 am

if the rebbe encouraged a secret eiruv in crownheights u would never know. duhh

true
Reply to  chelem
February 6, 2023 10:41 am

but most probably not, as the rebbe writes in this letter, that even a secret eiruv will most definitely become known about to some extent. so it is safe to assume that the rebbe did not encourage even a secret eiruv

really?!
Reply to  no
February 7, 2023 12:43 am

for example: the eiruv needs pulling strings which need permits ,funds and more. and did u just invent the criteria of “officially” in an attempt to survive a losing argument? well the rebbe only talks of “secrecy” or “utmost secrecy” or “the eiruv becoming known”

Sounds odd
Reply to  really?!
February 7, 2023 11:39 am

If you cant respond to,”the rebbe writes in this letter that his opinion is that wherever an eiruv is possible to be put up it should be (albeit secretly). For some reason no eiruv (even secret) was encouraged by the rebbe for crown heights before gimmel tammuz? Seems like the reebe didn’t believe an eiruv can be made in crown heights halachicly” then what you are claiming here (which we will leave for the reader to decide if it sounds correct, again, as the rebbe wrote in the letter, it will end up becoming known, at least to limited circles.… Read more »

Sounds odd
Reply to  really?!
February 7, 2023 11:42 am

If you cant respond to,”the rebbe writes in this letter that his opinion is that wherever an eiruv is possible to be put up it should be (albeit secretly). For some reason no eiruv (even secret) was encouraged by the rebbe for crown heights before gimmel tammuz? Seems like the reebe didn’t believe an eiruv can be made in crown heights halachicly” then what you are claiming here (which we will leave for the reader to decide if it sounds correct, again, as the rebbe wrote in the letter, it will end up becoming known, at least to limited circles.… Read more »

Ch resident
Reply to  The significance of this letter
February 3, 2023 12:15 pm

To say that the rebbes letters to rabbi eisenstat and rabbi moskowitz, where he quotes the rosh tashbatz chassam sofer beis av, is only academic. And therefore you can interpret the rebbes position that he argues on all gedolei haposkim cv. Is beyond ridiculous this letter was a response to rabbi moskowitz request from the rebbe what is the proper and correct approach to eruvin in our generation, while in the middle of a fight to make Manhattan eruv. The idea that this was academic is beyond ridiculous, this was the rebbes halachic answer period. Being that at the end… Read more »

הלכה כדברי המיקל בעירוב
Reply to  The significance of this letter
February 3, 2023 1:13 pm

הלכה כדברי המיקל בעירוב is not a polish tradition, it is an explicit gemara in eiruvin , brought down lehalacha agreed to by all poskim.
and it is no contradiction to the concept of “ikar hadin” and Lechatchila or Bedieved. but for example if there are two equal opinions the halacha is very clear that its kosher me-ikor hadin lechatchila.

Lol
Reply to  הלכה כדברי המיקל בעירוב
February 3, 2023 2:28 pm

Yo yo yo, if you want to argue, argue with whats written here. The letter of the rebbe.

Not understanding
February 5, 2023 9:50 am

The Rebbe writes COUNTLESS times that any city eiruvin (at least outside Eretz Yisroel) must be:

1) Fully kosher, mehudar lechatchila.

2) Completely secret so that no one should carry l’poel. And the Rebbe makes it clear that this is his GENERAL stance on city eiruvin.

I have no idea how ANYONE can argue with this.

What kind of nonsense is this?
Reply to  Not understanding
February 5, 2023 6:13 pm

How can they argue with this? Because they want to carry. So they’ll make fun of people who dedicate their lives to the Rebbe’s true and stated positions, run roughshod over anyone who quotes the Rebbe’s opinion halacha lmaaseh and engage in games against rabbonim with a) know the Rebbe’s position lmaaseh (namely, the one that they too advance) and b) know what the people who want to rewrite halachic history are trying to do. They also run roughshod over the the Alter Rebbe’s first sief in Hilchos Eiruvin. The Frierdiker Rebbe wrote that people advocating heterim that don’t exist… Read more »

ch resident
Reply to  What kind of nonsense is this?
February 5, 2023 8:28 pm

wont respond to your gibberish, but just to state facts the vast majority of chabad rabbonim carry in eruvin. and the vast majority dont accept rabbi zajacs positon..

Wow
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 9:47 pm

Vast majority carry in eiruvin? Can you list them for me?

Because they WANT to use an Eiruv
Reply to  Not understanding
February 5, 2023 7:25 pm

You asked: “I have no idea how ANYONE can argue with this.”

Read all the comments above and you will see the answer is clear: Because they WANT to have an Eiruv. As they say, don’t challenge my theory with facts.

ch resident
Reply to  Not understanding
February 5, 2023 8:26 pm

you just inserted a story that the rebbe said unless out of eretz yisroel he never said any such thing, and he supported multiple public eruvin including four in america.
(1 Miami (2 kfar chabad (3 moshav bar guria (4 bnei brak (5 beverly hills ca (6 queens (7 rockaway nj 

Wow
Reply to  ch resident
February 5, 2023 9:49 pm

This already got addressed above, and you haven’t yet responded to my response. Why do you assert it again here, even though I have already proved it wrong?

trying to understand
Reply to  Not understanding
February 5, 2023 10:17 pm

in this letter and other similiar letters and correspondance the rebbe never mentioned “city” or “metropolitan” or the like and definitely never mentioned any distinction about Eretz Yisrael so what is the source for some of the anti eiruv people to keep on making these distinctions in the name of the rebbe. also the term mehudor is not accurate . the rebbe writes a rov should act strictly according to shulchan aruch. for example an esrog may not be mehudar and still be strictly kosher according to shulchan aruch.

reformated rebbe's letter
February 5, 2023 5:50 pm

As everyone can see the photocopy of the original letter of the rebbe, the newly typed letter by rabbi Zajac re-divided the letter to many more paragraphs. Even from a language composition perspective its highly inappropriate. Especially the rebbe who was so meticulous about composition and grammar as can be seen from so many of the rebbes handwritten edits. Also the rebbe learned so much from the way the rambam or alter rebbe or rashi divided and organized their text. Especially in this letter i think the way the paragraphs are divided are crucial or atleast very helpful in understanding its… Read more »

Wow
February 5, 2023 8:21 pm

Let everyone read the rebbes letter for themselves of draw their own conclusions

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