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Tuesday, 20 Heshvan, 5782
  |  October 26, 2021

Rabbi Oberlander of Hungary Doubles Down on Eruvin Approval

Rabbi Baruch Oberlander, Hungary's Head Shliach and Chief of Budapest's Orthodox Rabbinate, reiterated his support for establishing eruvin in a response to the rebuttal by Rabbi Mottel Krasnjanski of Australia. Full Story

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יעקב
September 20, 2021 12:53 am

ישר כוח

no man
Reply to  יעקב
September 20, 2021 12:10 pm

he not our moroh d’asrah, so it is not for him to decide. if the c”h rabonim hold you can not make an eruv then it cant be made. eastern parkway is a reshus harabim min hatorah and since all the streets are connected it makes the whole thing one just becous some modern people decided we need to go against rabanim it dsnt need to be listend to

eiruv
September 20, 2021 12:58 am

why was thr rebbe against an eiruv in crown heights?!

Good question
Reply to  eiruv
September 20, 2021 11:52 am

If the Rebbe was so pro-eiruvin, why didn’t he get ask to have it done in his own community Crown Heights? If the Rebbe would have given one hint of a request, an entire mehudar Eruv in Crown Heights would have been erected in one day.
Seems suspicious.

mendel
Reply to  Good question
September 20, 2021 5:09 pm

we learn that it is a mitzvah to make an eruv, from the fact that abaye and rova didnt make an eruv in their own place, the gemora asks how can it be that such great people like abaya and rova wouldnt make an eruv? and the gemora answers that since they were to busy teaching their students they didnt make it, from the fact that the gemora had to excuse it we learn that its a mitzvah. therefore it is silly to bring proof that the rebbe didnt want eruv in ch, because he never made one. additonally despite… Read more »

Yisroel
Reply to  eiruv
September 20, 2021 1:38 pm

The rebbe was not chas vsholom against making a eruv in crown heights!

כתב הרבה ולא אמר כלום
September 20, 2021 12:59 am

איפה שיש רה״ר מן התורה בעל נפש יחמיר על עצמו
ואיפה מצאו גדולי הרבנים בזמננו הנהגה הפוכה ממה שהי׳ עד עתה ?

eiruv
Reply to  כתב הרבה ולא אמר כלום
September 20, 2021 12:35 pm

it would be very difficult to find place which is a reshus harabim d’oiraisah these days

reshus harabim
Reply to  כתב הרבה ולא אמר כלום
September 20, 2021 12:37 pm

there is not one chabad POSEK that paskens about any place in our times that it has a din of a biblical reshus harabim

Yisroel
Reply to  כתב הרבה ולא אמר כלום
September 20, 2021 1:40 pm

בזמן הזה אין רשות הרבים מן התורה כמו שפוסק אדמו”ר הזקן

קלאץ קשיא
Reply to  כתב הרבה ולא אמר כלום
September 20, 2021 2:04 pm

האם למדת הלכות עירובין איפו שיש רשות הרבים מן התורה אסור לטלטל לכל אחד אין זה קשור לבעל נפש.
ולדעת אדה”ז והצ”צ אין לנו רשות הרבים בעיירות שלנו אפילו אם לא סומכין על ששים רבוי כי המבואות שלנו אינן מכוונים משער לשער וגם הרי יש לנו מחיצות עומד מרובה על הפרוץ.
בקיצור אני ממליץ שתלמד הלכות עירובין לפני אתה מקשקש מן הבטן עם סברות מוזרות נגד שש עשרה רבנים חשובים.

מה שכתב לגבי העירוב במלבורן
September 20, 2021 1:03 am

זה ע״ד למעט באיסור כמו האוכל ביוה״כ שיעורים

Dear Rabbi Oberlander
September 20, 2021 2:04 am

With all due respect, as someone who is familiar with the history of the Melbourne. I would like to make the following points. The answers of the Rebbe concerning the Eruv were about bichlal getting involved in making an Eruv. There were no plans or proposals presented. Therefore trying to say that the Rebbe’s response was because of specific details of a specific proposal which came later is incorrect. Rabbi Mottel Gutnick asked the Rebbe about making an Eruv in Doncaster which is a suburb of Melbourne which did not have any of the problems detailed in Reb Mottels publication… Read more »

irony.
Reply to  Dear Rabbi Oberlander
September 20, 2021 2:18 pm

perhaps you can bring some actual evidence, have you seen the letter written to the rebbe? when harav feitel levine managed to get the eruv kosher was after a year of hard work getting permissions, and that was in 1989 7 years after answer of the rebbe, when the rebbe gave that answer there was no way to make proper eruv, and the rebbe loshon that its impossible that one shabbos wont occur and eruv wont be fixed is clear that hes referring to eruv that cant be maintained, otherwise you cant say its impossible, as maintainted eruvin dont go… Read more »

Where do you see that rabbi Oberlander Retracts
September 20, 2021 3:18 am

From the new letter he is strengthening his original post

Correct date mistakes
September 20, 2021 7:56 am

When Author is writing 1914 1918-21 etc he means
5714 5718 5621 etc
Very good work

Thank you!
September 20, 2021 8:32 am

Thank you very much rabbi oberlander. That was very well said and explained. I would like to hear what rabbi Krasnjanski has to say because it seems like he purposely twisted the facts for his agenda. Maybe I misunderstood but that is what it seems like is written here.

Language of Rabbis
September 20, 2021 8:37 am

Chabad rabbis should use more refined language when discussing Torah. For them to put each other down like this is the opposite of ahavas yisroel. They can make the same points without resorting to ad hominem attacks.

Zu Darkah Shel Torah
Reply to  Language of Rabbis
September 20, 2021 10:29 am

Clearly, you haven’t learned Yore Deah with the Schach and Taz. Had you done so, you would know this is the normative language of rabbis when discussing intricate halachic matters.

Rabbi Akiva
Reply to  Language of Rabbis
September 20, 2021 11:11 am

Very true. The Rebbe spoke so much about Ahavas Yisroel and treating others with respect, so the tone of this debate seems really odd.

Kach hee darkuh shel Torah
Reply to  Language of Rabbis
September 20, 2021 12:24 pm

Can’t figure out what you’re talking about. This letter by Rabbi Oberlander comes across to me as a friendly, diplomatic and very polite rebuttal.
The Munkatcher/Minchas Elazar, whom the Rebbe held in very high esteem, would attack those he felt were wrong so sharply, that this letter is rather bland compared to the Munkatcher’s…

irony.
Reply to  Language of Rabbis
September 20, 2021 2:09 pm

במקום חילול השם אין מחלקין כוד לרב וזה כלל ידוע, מעניין שלא שמענו ממך שהרב קראסיניאנסקי אמר שאין ניצות של ישרות לכל השש עשרה רבנים החשובים

interesting that we didnt hear you complain when rabbi krasniansky said that none of the 16 respected rabbonim, have even a scintilla of integrity.
there is a general rule that when there is a chillul hashem you don’t worry about respect.

יתבררו ויתלבנו הדברים
September 20, 2021 8:43 am

Thank you Rabbi Oberlander!
The clarity of your writing and cutting through the contortion is appreciated beyond words. The zechus of clarifying the Rebbe’s position even further should bring berocho to your entire family.
CH resident

Just to point out
September 20, 2021 9:54 am

Just to point out: the case of when the Rebbe was mishtatef and gave brochos was a yishuv, which has (long term residents and) clear boundaries already, so someone will not mistakenly walk outside of the eruv’s boundaries.

Also, the Alter Rebbe’s eruv is to have a poll every ten tefochim or be completely gated (which would also likely result in people not walking out of it’s boundaries mistakenly.) It should be noted that this is not possible in most modern cities and neighborhoods. It would necessitate a poll in the middle of most streets, which would not be possible.

mendel
Reply to  Just to point out
September 20, 2021 5:14 pm

have you ever learned hilchos eruvin? yet youre arguing with 16 rabbonim talmidei chachomim? what youre referring to is a rambam eruv, which the alter rebbe didnt pasken like, he only said that its a good thing to do, the tzemach tzedek paskens three times that we dont go with the rambam on this, the eruv in kfar chabad which the rebbe said mazal tov and that it will help bring moshiach was not a rambam eruv, about ten years ago rabbi ashkenazi obm made it a rambam eruv. but most importantly in most big cities including ch you have… Read more »

Kop Doktar
September 20, 2021 10:22 am

This so-called letter to Horav Krasnjanski, addressed to him, but written about him, is misleading, disrespectful and raises red flags about the entire kol korei.

People seeking halacha clarifications must have respectful and honest debate without cheap pot shots at an opponent’s position, that distract from the issues.

This is embarrassing and unbecoming for a rov. Divrei chachomin b’nachas nishma’im.

Avoid machlokes within the community
September 20, 2021 10:33 am

This seems like a controversial issue regarding an eruv in a certain city. If I may comment, in reality if for any reason Robonim have decided to make an eruv, no one can fiscally stop them from proceeding with their plans. If according to their opinion it is permitted according to Halachah and/or the Rebbe’s directives they will do it. In this instance, the only thing that will come out of strong opposition to an eruv is a big machlokes and sinas chinam within the members of the community, bizayon talmidei chachamim and a chilul Hashem. Moreover, think of the… Read more »

Thank you
September 20, 2021 10:54 am

Thank you Rabbi Oberlander.
B”H we have Rabbonim in Chabad that are able to clarify the Halacha according to the Alter Rebbe and Rebbe’s instructions. It is very obvious now that the Rebbe was not against Mitzvas Eiruvin in general, and only in situations when people were relying on the cities municipalities, was the Rebbe against it. We also know that the Rebbe sent Rabbi Tzinner to big cities such as L.A. to establish eiruvin.

CH resident
September 20, 2021 10:59 am

Thank you for clarifying in such a clear and concise manner without cutting corners or bowing to fake pressure.

Crown Heightser
September 20, 2021 11:27 am

A lengthy response with little substance. Light in content, while heavy personal attacks. Not nice right after yom kippur.

Crown Heights Eruv
September 20, 2021 11:56 am

Not one of the 16 Rabbonim has said whether or not the CH eruv is kosher, or can be made kosher according to Chabad custom.
To my mind, if it was possible to build an eruv in CH, the Rebbe, who lived here for 50 years, would have established one. Don’t forget, until the 60s/70s, there were a lot of non religious Jews living in the neighborhood (one of the resons given to build an eruv is that if people carry on shabbos, it shouldn’t be an isur).

Avremi Gourarie
September 20, 2021 11:58 am

From this here ignoramus.  it has always perplexed me that everyone seems to know exactly what the Rebbes psak or the Rebbes opinion on various matters were. Eiruvin, college, secular studies. The list goes on. Letters are no basis upon which to base a psak. First, they’re written to individual people for individual scenarios. Second, perhaps more importantly, the Rebbe made it clear he’s not a Rov, and always referred these questions to Rabonim. The exception, I guess, are matters discussed at public farbrengens.  Most egregiously, the Rebbe, who all you so called Rabonim portray as the ultimate arbiter of truth,… Read more »

eiruv
September 20, 2021 12:34 pm

I ask again, if what Rabbi oberlander writes is true why was the rebbe against an eruv in crown heights?

eiruv
September 20, 2021 12:36 pm

Rabbi Oberlander: divrei chachamim bnachas nishmaim

eiruv
September 20, 2021 12:37 pm

Thje rebbe Rayatz: A tomim trugt nisht

IDK who is right, but this isn't the way
September 20, 2021 1:21 pm

The 16 rabbis don’t seem to realize that they are trying to make a major CHANGE from what was already the accepted minhag. When you want to change what has become accepted, you need a much larger consensus of rabbis. And you need signatures of people who deal with halacha and paskening shaalos, not educators, and they need to be prominent. Where are the signatures of the Chabad rabanim who lead the communities in all major cities like Crown Heights, Miami, Montreal, LA, Chicago, Monsey? It is very suspicious. Get a consensus FIRST, and then you can avoid all this… Read more »

So was everyone wrong for the past 50 years?
September 20, 2021 1:26 pm

You haven’t addressed this. Why what it well known that the Rebbe wanted the eruvim to only be made in secret? Was everyone mistaken? Maybe that is the case. But you need to address this more clearly. And in order to make that case persuasively, you need support from more prominent rabbanim (not roshei yeshiva)

mendel
Reply to  So was everyone wrong for the past 50 years?
September 20, 2021 5:24 pm

hmm so you understand better then all the rabbonim, and you know which rabbonim are more important? fact is that the rebbe supported many public eruvin, queens, miami, bnei brak, kfar chabad, moshav bar guria, beverly hills california. the reason for keeping eruv secret was when the eruv wasnt kosher lchatchilla.

Was it all for nothing?
September 20, 2021 1:30 pm

For many decades and generations women have had real mesiras nefesh not to rely on eruvim. And here you are saying that they SHOULD have used the eruv. You are not just saying that they could have been lenient and used eruv, but that it would have been preferable to use eruv. I am not knowledgeable enough to know whether you are right or wrong, but it is a very bold claim.

Hiding Details
September 20, 2021 3:54 pm

It would seem that the reason R’ Krasniansky omitted details about Melbourne’s faulty eiruv, was because he knew that Oberlander would exploit them to further his point that the Rebbe’s response was directed exclusively at melbourne, although those familiar with the letter know that this is not the case. All the issues mentioned in the kuntres first printing came to light years after the Rebbe’s letter, and there is no reason to assume that the Rebbe’s decision to prohibit the eiruv was due to those problems; otherwise the Rebbe likely would’ve mentioned something to that effect in the letter itself.… Read more »

Search for the truth
September 20, 2021 5:17 pm

With all due respect, to Rabbi Oberlander and the other 15 esteemed Rabbis,, there is another fundamental core problem with the backbone of their Kol Koreh, which states that according to the Alter Rebe there is no “concept” of reshuas harabim nowdays. This statement is the core of problem and and the consequences of such a declaration are led by this erroneous statement. Whi,le true, that the Ar wrote that it is not “common” to have a reshus harrabim nowadays’ he did not write that the”concept” does not exist. In fact, he offered a reason for this statement’ namely THAT… Read more »

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