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Friday, 18 Nisan, 5784
  |  April 26, 2024

Why No Eruv in Crown Heights?

Writer Dovber Schwartz debunks the "myth" that the Alter Rebbe didn't allow for an Eruv, resulting in none in Crown Heights. Full Story

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to @3
June 20, 2016 2:15 pm

I grew up in Monsey, and can tell you most people do not use the Eruv there. I am referring to Non-Lubavtichers and Lubavitchers alike. It is very easy to say that an Eruv is needed in CH, when you never lived in an area with one. An Eruv is not needed now, just like it was not needed 50 years ago.

idiot
June 19, 2016 11:15 pm

read your words “Paris as well was about to implement an Eruv under the auspices of Rabbi Chaim Ozer before the war came.” anyone who wants an eruv should leave, period. the truth is that they want war. you dont want an eruv you want war. to your stupid points, you smug nobody. 1. women can pray anywhere 2. running away from the home is dysfunctional any day of the week, on shabbos all the more so 3. they don’t want to have more kids because they are sick either physically or emotionally not due to a eruv one way… Read more »

excuse me everyone sh'hi'yu
June 19, 2016 1:48 pm

bh my dear family. all of you 600,ooo souls out there.

just let Moshiach come already immediately takef umiyad mama”sh

be well

keep dancing the good dance please

meir weiss

Don't Steal Oneg Shabbos
May 30, 2016 9:00 pm

I am a non-Lubavitch Rabbi residing in Crown Heights and I am against the proposed Crown Heights eruv South of Eastern Parkway. The philosophy behind an eruv is it should unite Jews who are separated so they can elevate their oneg shabbos, but not that it divides Jews further. If a majority of the kehillah are against it, it is wrong to start using strollers in front of the homes of those who don’t use eruv on Shabbos. Kol nesivoseha Shalom, “all it’s ways are peace”, and this is not peaceful so it can’t be a good idea. Don’t steal… Read more »

To #133
May 10, 2016 9:16 pm

I agree, so next time you are in Eretz Yisrael please don’t carry, stay home with your husband and kids.

So sad
May 10, 2016 11:44 am

For so many reasons …but seriously …its healthy to be home with your husband and kids and actually pay attention to them on Shabbos ….you have 6 other days of the week to socialize ! What a lame reason to go agianst the rebbes words!!

Warsaw Eruv
May 10, 2016 9:41 am

To #60 and #70 since you claim to be so educated regarding the history of the Warsaw eruv can you please refer the readers to a mare makom where there is mention of a dispute vis a vis the eruv there. I will help you with the task — the answer is that you can’t give any reference because you made it up. There never was any machlokas regarding the Warsaw eruv, and the fact is that the overwhelming majority of yidden carried. Thus, there is no reason to argue that CH is any different.

r"l
May 10, 2016 6:01 am

I don’t think we as chassidim can take seriously any article that has the word evolution in it, when we know the rebbe’s opinion on evolution.

Bad
May 9, 2016 9:56 pm

The laws are complicated in all of NYC. All over Brooklyn there are disputes over eruvin. I’m not an expert to say, but I have read from Rabbi ribiat that in Europe the gedolim were also against eruvin for various. Besides the Rebbe was a tzaddik and likely also had kabballah in mind and higher matters. If anyone in crown height wants an erev it needs to go through beis din.

The Ramp in the BHM"K
May 9, 2016 1:16 pm

During the second BHM”K there were two kohanim who were so ‘on fire’ to do the ratzon of Hashem, that they raced to the top of the ramp. One bumped the other off, and he *fell to his death*. Forget eruv/no eruv. Stop telling everyone what The Rebbe would want. No one here has been appointed as The Rebbe’s spokesperson. The sinas chinam is breathtaking and seriously disturbing. I understand that everyone feels passionately about doing the right thing, and that the disagreement is, “what is the right thing?” But Rabbi Akiva’s talmidim were also passionate — and look where… Read more »

XD Hold up a sec
May 9, 2016 1:10 am

I just laughed so hard! Everyone, don’t take yourselves so seriously 🙂 When we are united, we are strong, when we are divided we are easily conquered. Let’s stay strong, and let’s stay together. This isn’t really for any of us to argue and certainly not to make anyone feel bad, ch”v. We are in the middle of sefira, let’s put those wonderful exercises from Rabbi Simon Jacobson to good practice. After we receive the Torah again we can argue later. Have a wonderful Shabbos everyone 😉 Looking forward to seeing all of you in Yerushalayim right now, with or… Read more »

To #'s 20 and 73
May 8, 2016 1:28 pm

BH

Not only is there not a single Lubavitcher Rav in L.A. (and our Rabbonim are respected world-wide based on the amount of Shailois they get from out of CA!) who is Matir the Eiruv, I had a meeting with the 2 leading Rabbonim who built the current L.A. Eiruv, both yiden with Yiras Shomayim and they said that THEY do not carry by the L.A. Eiruv that THEY BUILT!!!

It is shocking that #20 could put forth the “Big Lie” and hopw that no one reads all the way down to number 73 or 126.

Nebach!

Moshiach Now!

To #67
May 8, 2016 9:36 am

Shame on you!!!!
YOU SHOULD NOT CALL YOURSELF CHABAD LUBAVITCH!!!!!
Find YOURSELF a New place to live and a new Chasiduis to follow!!!! Because by going against the Rebbe You are going against everything….

Where did the rebbe write clearly against an eiruv in CH?
May 8, 2016 1:51 am

Can someone please show me where the rebbe clearly states that you should not make an eiruv in CH???
Pls don’t post any yechidus or private messages to people that is not verifiable.

The letter posted here earlier does not state clearly that the rebbe was against and eiruv and more importantly who was that letter addressed to?

I’m just curious where everyone got this from or is everyone on this comment thread saying what they heard without actually seeing it themselves.

Maple St. And southwards
May 7, 2016 11:40 pm

Obviously we don’t count in your grand scheme of 15 blocks by 15 blocks. Why did you include Lefferts Gardens or Atlantic Ave.? That being said- you admit yourself that you found a “funny” business letter from the Rebbe that seems to have a different style and M isprints but are being liberal to base your claims on it. When you start with something rotten then your arguments have a shaky foundation. Have some bittul and speak to all the various rabbanim on the Beis Din but make sure you are educated about the new geography of our shechunos- Crown… Read more »

A Shliachs experience
May 7, 2016 10:58 pm

In our community there are two shomer shabbos yiden who moved here from Frum comminities where there is an Eruv. In our community there is not eiruv but these individuals completely disregard the melacha of hotzaah as if it doesn’t exist simply because they’ve become accustomed to carrying. It was mentioned above this was one of the Rebbe’s reasons to oppose public eiruvin, and I’ve seen it bemuchash in fact. Surprise surprise the Rebbe was right…

my biggest problem
May 6, 2016 6:28 pm

is when people assume the Rebbe would have changed his mind on an issue so let’s just do whatever we want

Pinchos Woolstone
May 6, 2016 4:41 pm

The time may have been reached when the members of the Crown Heights Beis Din need to issue a written Psak on the issue of Eruv in the Sechuna.
The conjecture circulating on this site and in the community does not resolve the issue and only leads to divisiveness.

to mr #92
May 6, 2016 2:09 pm

not sure why i am taking time to respond to your sick comment , but whatever.

Maybe those that dont eat lubavitch shechita, you should smear their meat with chazer fat.

Always during sefira the yetzer hara, works extra hard to cause machlokes by yidin.( you dont have to be the one to represent him)

may you have a mentel refua shlaima
p.s. I by no means have an opinion in this matter, just your method is disgusting

Sickening!
May 6, 2016 2:02 pm

If u are not a rav than please DO NOT mislead the public with wrong information
Sin in private if that’s what u choose but don’t drag others down with u….

"I am not a rav"
May 6, 2016 1:44 pm

This article should have started and ended with this statement.
Please leave the issue to rabononim, and keep on writing “inspirational” pieces.

Opinon of Someone "Not Chassidish"
May 6, 2016 1:12 pm

I don’t consider myself chassidish, nor would I describe myself as modern. I guess people would describe me as “open-minded somewhat chilled.” I personally use all eruvs outside of CH that are kosher-I have no problem with them. However, noting that the Rebbe did not want one to be erected in CH, I personally would never use one here, even if it is kosher. I know times change but if he said this so blatantly and I can survive without it (don’t get me wrong, it’s not easy!) then I will try my best.

Re: 92 "Askonim"
May 6, 2016 10:49 am

I don’t know who you are, but God bless you. You are absolutely doing the correct thing. You should destroy it after lichten when it can no longer be repaired. The hefkeirus here is mind-boggling.

dov
May 6, 2016 9:39 am

Rabbi berel Levin has written a ten page article, proving that crown heights is a reshus harabim according to e everyone, and as such, no eruv may be made. This would even be according to those who permit the boro park Eric.
Maybe someone could translate it into English

who is interested
May 6, 2016 7:37 am

in reading what a true talmid chacham has to say
see col.org.il how rabbi levin writes that because of the big streets that crown heights has eastern parkway in is not possible to make a eirov
so using a eirov like that you are mechalel shabbos

Kan Tziva
May 6, 2016 3:07 am

“The Yetzer Hora dressed in a silk kapota….!

Wrong
May 6, 2016 2:43 am

The Rebbes concern was not as the writer implies that people would deliberately be mechalel shabbos
It was a concern that people will become so accustomed to being allowed to carry that they simply will not realise that they can’t carry and they will even in places that has no Eruv since they are so used to it

This is so stupid
May 6, 2016 2:35 am

You say we should make a Eruv in ch since people who are used to Eruv in other places will come to ch and carry thinking there is an Eruv ?! That is the most ridicules logic I’ve heard Since there is a problem in other places with people using an Eruv and therefore forgetting about carrying (as was the Rebbes concern) we should cause the same problem in ch to stop them from being mechalel shabbos?! That’s like saying we should supply kosher shavers to everyone in ch so people who shave won’t use non kosher shavers It’s utterly… Read more »

Halacha by press conference
May 6, 2016 2:11 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_by_press_conference

…a classic case
…you want to talk halacha, talk to a Rov, not COL…

anymonous
May 6, 2016 12:40 am

Everyone has there own opinion about the Eruv, so why are people attacking one another, it is a disgrace,

Nice controversial underpinning
May 5, 2016 11:26 pm

If you have a halachic question ask your rov. If you have a hashkafa question, ask your mashpia. If your rov and mashpia say it’s ok for you to build an eruv, go ahead. With my blessing as well. I don’t think CH is currently one community with one leader and one rav, so it’s not a “communal question.” Find a committed group of like-minded folks founded on halacha and hashkafa per your rav/mashpia and do as you wish. I think it generally inappropriate to attempt to apply halachic or hashkafa position for a current circumstance by extricating from rebbe… Read more »

me again
May 5, 2016 11:09 pm

In addition to the fact that seeing the whole letter of the Rebbe would make a chossid or anyone who wants to be considered ever just “a friend of Lubavitch” not even think of making a public eirev.

I am upset that the eirev committee is kicking me out of CH. See map, many ppl live past eirev

Tzuras Hapesach
May 5, 2016 11:09 pm

Even if you were to successfully argue that a tzuras hapesach is sufficient, will a post be erected every 10 amos? In addition, the author uses rampant speculation to assume that word of mouth would reach 100% of potential eruv-users in the event of its not being kosher. I can understand why the author would assume that it is more likely that the information will spread, but can the author safely rely on such information being spread to every single person who relies upon an eruv?

YOUNG SHNOOK WRITING TSHUVOS THAT THE GREATEST RABBONIM COULD NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 5, 2016 11:01 pm

A YOUNG SHNOOK JUST BARELY CAN READ HEBREW WITHOUT MAKING MISTAKES, IS POSTING ANSWERS AND CLARITY IN AN AREA THAT THE GREATEST RABONIM DONT HAVE A CLARITY AND ARGUED,

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE WRITING YOUR AM HARATZISHE PSAK, DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW MANY BLAT MSECHES ERUVIN HAS, HAVE YOU EVER LEANRED MORE THAN A STRAIGHT BLAT GMARA WITH TOSFOS OF THOSE BLAT!!!
WOULD I TRUST A LAWYER THAT READ A FEW SUMMARIES THE WAY YOU DID ON THIS TOPIC!!

#92
May 5, 2016 11:01 pm

What is wrong with you?!

You are blatantly and happily letting and HELPING other yiddin commit an aveirah.

I thought as Chabadnicks that was something we were against? Aren’t we pro-mitzvahs and pro-Ahavas Yisroel?

If the sight of the eiruv upsets you, IGNORE IT. So others aren’t up to your standards? Too bad. It isn’t going to make them love or respect you all any more, it will just cause even more machlokes and rifts in the neighborhood.

You should be ashamed.

To 92 - Asskonim
May 5, 2016 10:40 pm

You do not believe in G-d
You do not lot love the Jewish People
You should be exposed, and thrown out of every Jewish community

To #92 folk like you will be locked up
May 5, 2016 10:28 pm

Who made you an Askan of Crown Heights?! You sound more like a thug. People like you belong in מאה שערים not amongst Chabad. And 96 is rightת Chilul shabbos will be on your head. People like you fall into the category ירבעם בן נבט who was חוטא ומחטיא את הרבים. Stop with the war against the rebbe, you sound like an idiot. Crown Heights has normal people living here too you know. I would gladly give you my name and maybe we can sit down and have a farbrengen together and bring Moshiach. By the way, we simply have… Read more »

To Number 92
May 5, 2016 10:05 pm

Get out of your mothers basement and put some hair on your chest.

If you really feel so passionate of why the Eruv should not be built, come forward and in engage with people who you claim are behind it. Standing behind some post on the internet just goes to show how fearful you are of losing,

Oh and by the way, the cops have an image if you touching the “Eruv” which is on City property. Hope you have a good lawyer to save yourself from prison.

Gerboktz on Acharon Shel Pesach
May 5, 2016 9:50 pm

Gebroktz on acharon shel pesach has a lot to do with the oneg yom tov. Why wouldn’t eiruv also be in the same category of a cheshash issur min hatorah (chametz vs tiltul)

a solution
May 5, 2016 9:49 pm

Make an eiruv and once a month make it not kosher, so that everyone remembers that you are not supposed to carry.

Speak volumes by your slip
May 5, 2016 9:38 pm

“There were large amounts of people that were frum yet worked on Shabbas.” Mr. Schwarz, isn’t this a contradiction in terms? I believe you mean they were still traditional and had not yet slipped completely into assimilation. Something seems off here! Very off.

To number 96
May 5, 2016 9:12 pm

The above m entioned askonim who will be passeling the eruv weekly have the unanimous support of ALL the Rabbonim of Crown Heights. they say TThats who has the dass torah in this area. They will not allow a kosher eruv to be built, and will ensure weekly that it is possul. The people that want to carry have been forwarned, we will be michallel shabbos .hats why I will be moving. The rabbis here are in the dark ages. Why should our women suffer. If the rebbe knew how hard it is with babies at home maybe he would… Read more »

To 92
May 5, 2016 8:06 pm

I am not an eiruv supporter but your thuggish tactics are unacceptable. Any chilul shabbos is on YOUR head. Which rov did YOU consult who told you it was ok to vandalize an eiruv?

I didnt read all of the comments
May 5, 2016 7:46 pm

But i believe there are some for it and some against it as usual All i can say is what i heard from a great Rabbi who i happened to know from Israel regarding people who wont hold by the Eruv for different reasons and he said “The gerat scholars of the Mishnah and Gemora spent their precious time to come up with the technical way to allow communities to function as a community and be able to ENJOY the day of rest in kosher way, and you somehow think that it is not for you???” It amplifies the claim… Read more »

#20
May 5, 2016 7:30 pm

most of the lubavitch community in LA does not use the eruv. Im not for or against but you cant use LA as an example.

a solution
May 5, 2016 6:54 pm

Make an eiruv and once a month make it not kosher, so that everyone remembers that you are not supposed to carry.

Askonim of Crown Heights
May 5, 2016 5:24 pm

As of 330 PM today the Eruv has been ripped down. You may not notice it, the strings are up but it has been posuled. (A community eruv is very intricate, it involves many halachos, and can be passeled without the problem visible to the untrained layperson.) We are notifying here in this email, any attempt to fix it, or to extend it into the Rebbes shechunah where he is the Mara Dasra and was against an Eruv being erected, will not be succesful. We will go out every friday and Passul the eruv immediatly before Shabbos. We have the… Read more »

Sholom Duber
May 5, 2016 4:45 pm

Sydney has a Eiruv constructed and supervised by Chabad Rabbonim

Big Z Schapiro
May 5, 2016 4:34 pm

#57 job well done I

to # 18
May 5, 2016 4:22 pm

HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT
THE REBBE OFCOURSE AND ALWAYS IS STILL WITH US
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

לכבוש את המלך עמי בבית
May 5, 2016 4:22 pm

The sand by the sea is the driest. This is why we see so many of the Rebbe’s clear directives completely disregarded by his (so called) followers who live in his Shechuna. Wearing a sheitel, growing a beard, tznius, kvius itim letorah – those are all not for us modern Crown Heightsers. And now this. Comment 39 writes: “I’m in contact with a committee who has constructed an Eruv in CH (it’s pending Hasgacha from a non-lubavitch Chareidi Rov which will be done by the end of the month)”. Please tell me – why is a non-lubavitch Rov giving a… Read more »

User obligation to check
May 5, 2016 4:21 pm

In the town I live we have an eruv and the Rabbonim in town make it very clear that each user has an obligation to call the hotline each week to confirm that the eruv has been checked and is in working order.

TO 15
May 5, 2016 4:06 pm

15 IS TOTALLY RIGHT

#80, Obviously one must verify
May 5, 2016 3:50 pm

Obviously when one goes anywhere one must verify that there is an eruv, where it goes, and whether it’s up that week. But it’s a fact that there are almost no Jewish communities in the world without an eruv.

What about Trump's wall?
May 5, 2016 3:08 pm

Anyone have connections with the Donald that can influence him to build a wall around CH? A big and beautiful one?

mendel e
May 5, 2016 3:06 pm

reposted from comment 57 Quote from the letter of the Rebbe “In view of the above, it is an absolute necessity, in my opinion, that the eiruv, if one is feasible at all according to din, should be carried out in the utmost secrecy. This means that the purpose of the eiruv would be not to enable a Jew to carry his tallis to shul on Shabbos, but only to relieve those who already transgress the Shabbos by carrying things, from doing so b’issur. ”

Please read comment 70.

OMG is right!
May 5, 2016 2:35 pm

I stopped reading the comments at around #35! The hate, Narish, and “head in the sand” comments here are so pathetic to think you are chassidim and claim you want to do what the Rebbe thought us, and at the same time berate, negate and insinuate all kind of idiocies is totally against what Chabad is all about and our Rebbe. So I will simply state if you don’t want to use the Eruv just don’t but it will be here to stay, and I suggest you repent, quickly, if not for the readers which I know you could care… Read more »

just make an eiruv.
May 5, 2016 2:12 pm

who ever needs it or would like to use it, can use it. otherwise stay in doors and make your wife and kids stay in doors a whole shaboos. the kids wake up at 6am, and the wife has to stay till 9.30 in doors on a summer shabbos.

make one! you dont have to use it.

to #60
May 5, 2016 2:09 pm

What about out-of-town places? I am on Shluchus and many times we have had guests come and they will walk into Shul with their Tallis bags or other things while we have no Eruv. People should never assume there is automatically an Eruv, always ask. If you are so comfortable with the fact that there is an Eruv ‘everywhere’ without confirming it, then most likely you have carried unwittingly at some point.

dor hashmini
May 5, 2016 2:06 pm

It’s time we open a lubavitcer community in crown heights

to 50
May 5, 2016 1:52 pm

what are you talking about ahavas yisrael
ahavas yisrael dos not mean you can come to my house and do what ever you want
the rebbe is the mara deasra of crown heights and if the rebbe said there should be no eruv then no eirov .

and if its to hard for you then there are many other communities

shame
May 5, 2016 1:44 pm

the new genarations “yeridas hadoros” how can there be pepole going aginst the rebbe so openly Dovber Schwartz shame on u the rebbe is not happy

a eruv in CH can be made
May 5, 2016 1:42 pm

Definitely a eruv in CH can be made according to the rebbes opinion and the alter rebes opinion, all streets are reshut harabim, including Balfour Pl, but with dors and 90% closed with mejitzot (construction) it can be done.
Rabbi Y. Feigelstock

What happens when the Eiruv in Florida is down
May 5, 2016 1:41 pm

As far as the authors contention that, nowadays, there is no need to worry that people will forget and not carry when they have no eiruv, this is simply not true. Every few years, when there is a hurricane and the Eiruv in South Florida is down, I see with my own eyes how people continue to carry on Shabbos. Some don’t realize it’s down. And others simply don’t care. They got used to carrying.. And when they are told that they cannot, they think it’s a chumrah and not for them. This is especially true of teenagers. Kids who… Read more »

Inherent Contradiction
May 5, 2016 1:20 pm

1) The author links to Rabbi Krasnianski’s wonderful treatise on Eiruvin — from which it is clear that Brooklyn almost certainly is not eligible for an Eiruv according to most poskim including the Alter Rebbe — and then conveniently builds heter upon heter to say that it probably is OK. 2) The Eruv map clearly includes many MAJOR streets that are straight or almost straight from one side of the Eiruv to the other, that would definitely invalidate the Eiruv according to almost all opinions, including the lenient ones. 3) The Rebbe’s answer quoted makes it clear that any implied… Read more »

Los Angeles Eruv
May 5, 2016 1:13 pm

Just to clarify there is an Eruv in Los Angeles and most Lubavitchers and Non Lubavitchers do NOT use it !

there is not one Lubavitcher Rov in Los Angeles that will tell you that the Eruv can be used only under special circumstances (ie: sick person etc.)

Los Angeles Resident

The Need for an Eruv
May 5, 2016 1:12 pm

I live in a Chabad community with an Eruv. Everyone respects it while not everyone personally uses it – that being an individual Hashkafic decision. It allows women, children, and families to participate in the community on the most important day of the week – Shabbos. They can and do come to shul, go to classes, have guests over and be guests at others. It is a beautiful atmosphere in shul when walking in and seeing numerous strollers lined up. Once, while in conversation with a Chabad Rov in Israel he contrasted two communities – one with an Eruv and… Read more »

The Rebbe's reasoning
May 5, 2016 1:06 pm

If you want to say the Rebbe’s reasons are why you want an eiruv in CH, then fine, but all the reasons listed here are clearly not the Rebbe’s reasons, you are using the Rebbe for your own agenda!

Pretty Outrageous
May 5, 2016 1:01 pm

This article is interesting, but the tone and conclusions are terribly out of place. Mr. Schwartz is no rav, and we BH have rabbonim in CH who likely considered all of the points in the essay. And if Mr. Schwartz believes they may not have considered them, he can present them to the rabbanim! Obviously, the only purpose of this essay (and especially posting it here on COL) is to submit this matter of halacha to a court of public opinion, which is outrageous and is yet another example of the degree of hefkeirus that is so rampant in our… Read more »

Agree with 33
May 5, 2016 12:53 pm

I grew up without an eruv and now I’m in Florida with an Eiruv. At first I loved it but now I miss that Shabbos feeling. Also o feel such pressure to go to shul and if I stay home on Shabbos I’m viewed as anti social. An Eiruv has great benefit if you have small children and live far away but honestly the real purpose is sincerely to socialize. There’s a time and a place for everything in life. Eventually all our kids will grow and we will be able to go out again

to 62
May 5, 2016 12:42 pm

Currently we don’t know what the rebbe would say now. Gotta move on sorry. All other chabad communities have it. Al apcha v’chmoscha we are going to have it here in Crown Heights. Use it or don’t use it that’s your Haskofah and halachik standards. It’s almost complete. We will finally be seeing young mothers on Shabbos!! The young modern crowd demands more. Crown Heights will be like all other communities (kfar chabad, Melbourne, Los Angeles). Young mothers will NOT BE LOCKED UP ANYMORE PERIOD. Crown Heights will be a family friendly neighborhood!

Just because the Rebbe was against it does that mean we can't do it?
May 5, 2016 12:41 pm

Here’s a point to ponder, an eruv in Crown Heights would as pointed out in the article posted on Collive this week be very helpful to very many people on the other hand it’s clearly not what the Rebbe wanted. Two points on this first Not all crown heightsers care the sad reality is that many people would rather have a more comfortable living situation than follow everything the Rebbe was pro and against to the letter. The thing is that that’s not our fault or our business if it’s mutar and they want it who are you to stop… Read more »

Note to some commentors
May 5, 2016 12:38 pm

Here is the crux of the issue, and why it is, or wil becomr, so hotly contested and debated: Let’s assume, as most Rabbonim do and any honest person will, that the Alter Rebbe rules in his Shulchon Aruch that the kind of Eruv that can be erected in Crown Heights isn’t Kosher for carrying. OK. There is a basic Halachic principle that באתריה דרב – כרב — in the city (jurisdiction) of the Amaraic Rav, you must follow the rulings of Rav. Some argue, that there are other Poskim (Halakhic decisors) who disagree with the Alter Rebbe about Eruv,… Read more »

a bal a'bos deciding halacha???!!!
May 5, 2016 12:35 pm

if you have a shala, you go to a Rov, and don’t announce your ignorance.
if you don’t know halacha, don’t instigate and incite others to want something they (might) not be allowed to have.
don’t stir up the people.
it’s wrong.
it’s insensitive.
And especially, considering that you want an ‘eruv’ to create a more peaceful atmosphere, … and you do with through machlokes. shame on you.

Monsey
May 5, 2016 12:33 pm

To number 3 Reasons why people are moving to monsey is because. 1. Homes are more affordable. 2. Homes are larger for a growing family B”H to live in. 3. You have a front and back yard. 4. You have a driveway for parking and do not have to move your car everyday for alternate side of the street parking. 5. There is not a new restaurant opening on your block everyday. There is one chabad community with one moreh tzedek and an assistant rov who are always available to the community. And the list can keep on growing. No… Read more »

problematic reasoning
May 5, 2016 12:29 pm

you quote the Rebbe as not being against the eiruv, rather against using it, yet all the reasons at the end of the article to build the eiruv seem to be to use it!

rav dworkin was against an eruv
May 5, 2016 12:22 pm

Rav dworkin who was the rebbe’s rav as well as this community’s rav was against having an eruv as well as the rebbe.
How can anyone think of going against what the rebbe wants!

Crown Heights needs an eruv
May 5, 2016 12:21 pm

I live in Jerusalem. I spent a shabbos in Crown Heights recently and was shocked to see no mothers with children on the streets on shabbos. Just for that I wouldn’t want to live there. It seems oppressive to me to not have an eruv.

The Warsaw eruv was controversial
May 5, 2016 12:18 pm

“Most famously, Warsaw had a population of several times 600,000 and had a Jewish population of over half a million. There was an Eruv there with no one objecting or creating a ruckus about it.” This is not true. The Warsaw eruv was quite controversial. Some more points: 1. The author seems confused about the Alter Rebbe’s view. There are two separate questions: 1) Does a reshus horabim need 600K people? 2) In an eruv made up mostly of tzuros hapesach, can each tzh”p be wider than 10 amos? In both cases the Alter Rebbe rules leniently, but urges a… Read more »

Why the Author is Wrong.
May 5, 2016 12:12 pm

1) He misunderstood the Alter Rebbe’s opposition to a theoretical Crown Heights Eruv (it has nothing to do with 600k people, and everything to do with erecting posts every ten feat, which would include blocking off streets and is practically unfeasible). 2) He doesn’t mention what the Rebbe writes is the most serious concerns with a potential community Eruv, and understandably so, for two reasons. First, the Rebbe’s most streneous objections against the Eruv involve many “וכו'” and “וד” ל” and are mostly only hinted to, because they involve the Eruv’s sociological affects with regard to other areas of Yiddishkait,… Read more »

to #31
May 5, 2016 12:04 pm

i think you mean the noun “drivel” not the verb “dribble”

Rebbe's Letter in Full
May 5, 2016 11:59 am

By the Grace of G-d Chol Hamoed Pesach, 5724 Brooklyn, N.Y. Rabbi New York, N.Y. As you will surely recall, the matter was raised a few years ago, when I expressed my position, which has not changed. However, since I do not know if you are fully informed of it, I will reiterate the main points of my viewpoint relative to this matter. Firstly, as a matter of principle, my opinion is that where according the din an eiruv can be instituted, it should be instituted. This is based on the opinion of many poskim, including that of Admor HaZaken… Read more »

Brooklyn children's museum
May 5, 2016 11:56 am

Eruv is good idea… on rainy shabbosim we’ll be able to bring our kids and babies to the museum

to 42 - joe
May 5, 2016 11:54 am

your comment is not wise at all. in the Talmud there was s student that wrote up 150 reasons why we can purify a sheretz.

An eruv should be built in ch!
May 5, 2016 11:44 am

but for the sole propose to serve women with children,
and should not be used by the general public, and people should be discouraged from using it.

When?!
May 5, 2016 11:33 am

When did the Rebbe say (or write) not to have an Eruv in Crown Heights? Not one person came up with a source.

In a comment someone wrote a “supposed” Yachidus with R’ Hirshel Chitrik – however one of his grandchildren commented that its not true! The Rebbe never said such a thing! On the contrary – the Rebbe said not to PUBLICZE the Eruv.

Rabbi Groner has not even come up with one source proving that the Rebbe was against an Eruv in CH

Thank you to the author
May 5, 2016 11:26 am

Thank you for opening this discussion it is something often discussed by our family. For the goodness of all of crown heights I hope the rabbonim unite in an effort to make a kosher eiruv respected by all!

In defense:
May 5, 2016 11:11 am

Many comments are arguing that the Rebbe did not want it without bothering to address at all the point the writer repeats, namely: could it not be said that the Rebbe did not want an eiruv for reasons and circumctances? MAYBE those reasons have changed today? A change to do something which is a mitzvah and encouraged by the chasam sofer – who is famous for opposing changes. After addressing and refuting the writer why not also address and even refute the points too? At the same time I do not think that COL is the right way of going… Read more »

Educated mother
May 5, 2016 11:01 am

Did you hear what 21 said? “If you don’t like Crown Heights then go back to Flatbush”. Excuse Me??? Everybody knows Crown Heights is city property and is owned by the Goverment. While we allow her to choose to live and work in CH, our neighborhood, and to be allowed the privalige to be as strict as she wants with her religion, if she blocks off acssess to Other people – or her own neighbor from flatbush – she smells like somthing’s wrong with her, I mean I think she’s Crazy.I mean, if she’s got I dont know, whatever, someone… Read more »

One very important point that has been left out
May 5, 2016 11:00 am

The Rambam holds (and is cited as something which “it is good to be concerned for” by the Alter Rebbe, Orach Chaim 362:19) that an eruv consisting of a series of tzuras hapesachs wider than 10 amos is no good. He holds that they either have to be 10 amos or less (approx. 15 feet, far narrower than any Crown Heights street), or that there has to be “omed merubeh al haparutz” (most of the perimeter of the area enclosed by the eruv consists of solid structures rather than tzuras hapesachs). That is far from certain to be the case… Read more »

ATTN COL
May 5, 2016 10:49 am

Can we please have a Rov write a response to this?

Rebbe or No Rebbe
May 5, 2016 10:37 am

Unfortunately there seems to be this eerie feeling of distancing between the old generation that lived and saw “Rebbe” and the present generation that has not. Coming from the old when Rebbe made matters clear we didn’t question chv however the
new generation…

The Rebbe closed the above matter and that was it! The notion that the Rebbe didn’t feel for those who are locked up on Shabbos is wrong but again for those that need to be out on Shabbos it’s a real issue.

Takalah Ayoma
May 5, 2016 10:31 am

The Rebbe in response to Melbourne said that it is a TAKOLAH AYOMA a grave stumbling block and you have the audacity to claim that the Rebbe would be for it??????

i wish
May 5, 2016 10:26 am

If there were are eruv I would not use it. But I wish there were a way it could be OK for the younger crowd. (sounds ridiculous?) It IS a heavy issue for many of them, including, as mentioned, a deterrent to having more children, once their toddlers have started walking. I Do remember many a teary Shabbos in the good old days, ‘stuck’ in the house while husband were at shul, fabrengen, etc. But we were a generation that tolerated discomfort a lot better; this next generation is NOT. If a halacha is too hard, they just chuck it.… Read more »

2989
May 5, 2016 10:15 am

Mingling of women?? Excuse me, do u think are second class citiZens to be hidden away at home? It is u the men who have the problem , if u can’t handle seeing women, then u should be the one to stay at home at not be seen. Stop deciding what a women can or can’t do. They have enough halachos as it is.

Lubavitch
May 5, 2016 10:14 am

Did the village of Lubavitch have an Eiruv? Is there a historian or a Sefer that discusses this? Crown Heights is the capital of Chabad and we should not necessarily be looking at Warsaw, Paris, oo European shtetlach, when we can look at the Eiruv situation in the capital of Chabad at the time.

Joe
May 5, 2016 10:10 am

BS”D
i pity anyone who has the time to read such lenghty articles which appear all the time, this at least is Halacha, why can’t the writers condense them

The Rebbe's decision
May 5, 2016 10:04 am

The Rebbe has made the decision what he wants for his shechuna etc. and as it was obvious by the Rebbe (in many other matters) that he did not state all the reasons that concerned him about this topic, so no one today and the past is in any position to come and write up an essay or similar, as to remove the Rebbe’s final opinion. and yes, the Rebbe, more than all others, knew of all the inconveniences of mothers etc.

A Shliach
May 5, 2016 9:55 am

Who are you to juge that what the Rebbe said about people putting an Eruv that people will get used to carrying dosent apply anymore because as you claim most comunnites have an Eruv Who are you to decide to take that side of the coin and not take into consideration that many people that WILL be nichshol r”l by the way most people when they come to a new community I doghut they just carry becouse they did last week in England or France you can’t just take that flipside on the coin for the people in France and… Read more »

The Eruv in CH is here - stay tuned
May 5, 2016 9:50 am

I’m in contact with a committee who has constructed an Eruv in CH (it’s pending Hasgacha from a non-lubavitch Chareidi Rov which will be done by the end of the month). The infrastructure has been setup in it’s entirety. All Shabbos observant Jews in CH are welcome to act according to their Hashkofah. Use or don’t use it. To all the nay sayers I say please remember the severe aveiros of motzie shem ra, rechilus, loshon horah, מבייש חבירו ברבים etc. when you see an observant young mother pushing a stroller in CH on shabbos DO NOT YELL OR EMBARRASS… Read more »

To Author it's not what the rebbe wanted PERIOD. If that's not good enough then perhaps you should strengthen your hiskashrus"
May 5, 2016 9:49 am
Shabbos Farbrengans
May 5, 2016 9:46 am

For many years the Rebbe farbrenged every Shabbos. The women with children were all very anxious to attend but could not because there was no eruv. We are talking about very frum women who wanted to go to the Rebbes farbrengan. Still it was understood that the Rebbe did not want an eruv. you mention all the different ways that one can be informed that the eruv is down. None of those ways can be done on shababbos except for the lights on the street which by day no one would notice. Also you mention that todayit is a more… Read more »

Response from Rabonim
May 5, 2016 9:46 am

Oh please, can collive post a response from the leaders in our community. So sad when people publicize their own opinion with zero guidance from Rabonim. Nowhere in the article does he say he spoke to any CH Rabonim about this. This isn’t afree for all jungle. For generations people relied on Rabonim. Uch un vey what has become of us. Send Moshiach now.

What about the feeling of Shabbos?
May 5, 2016 9:39 am

Although you mention that in all cities of Poland and Russia there was an Eruv ( an unproven fact), the Rebbe made his position known, to respect the sanctity of Shabbos we should not use an Eruv. The reason the Rebbe felt it was unappropiate for Shabbos are much the same as the Chachomim felt when they forbade us dpong strenuous activity on Shabbos, even though it did not transgress any specific Malocho. They felt that Shabbos has a certain sanctity to it that would theoretically be destroyed, even without transgressing any malocho. Much the same way the Rebbe told… Read more »

I hope this article changes something
May 5, 2016 9:24 am

We’ve been living in the dark ages too long

This was well written!

Rebbes opinion
May 5, 2016 9:14 am

If you want to know the Rebbes opinion, learn it! Many of the reasons you gave in regards to why we should have an Eruv, deal with women and little children. Please learn the sicha in which the Rebbe Talks about chana and her son Shmuel. Chana (who appreciated the gift of children, after being barren for so many years) Stayed home for two whole years – and did not go the the BAIS HAMIKDOSH, to devote herself to her most important task – to raise her children. Instead of encouraging negative, secular ideas – lets educate and encourage the… Read more »

2, 4,11
May 5, 2016 9:12 am

Wow Wow Wow I’m shocked

2) What was mentioned in a private yechidus a long time ago may not be the case today.

4) he clearly addressed that. Today the opposite is more of a concern. That people who visit from any other established community in the world would not fathom that ch doesn’t have an eruv and will carry.

11) You want to lock up women do you’ll use the eruv ad your method?!!!! Pathetic.

Shame
May 5, 2016 9:10 am

Col, you just dropped a few notches in my opinion. I don’t click onto col to see views that are against the Rebbe’s. If you’re a Chabad site then don’t let this uneducated dribble on.
Thank you.

to #11
May 5, 2016 8:57 am

Did you really just say? “the mingle of woman roaming on shabbos would not do any good for the community.”
DISPICABLE

One thing is forsure
May 5, 2016 8:50 am

You would save 100s of pepole from carrying on shabbos
Teens I see pepole carrying all the time even cell phones with there yarlmukas on but the point is that they would not be carrying on shabbos if there was an eiruv

Is it true?
May 5, 2016 8:40 am

I heard there is an eruv already in place in CH ‘unofficially’.

Maybe there is an Eruv
May 5, 2016 8:06 am

Berry, Maybe there is an Eruv and you just don’t know about it. This would be keeping in line with the Rebbe’s hoiro’os (a) to have an eruv where possible, and (b) not to use it because of the reasons you mentioned.

There is a boss
May 5, 2016 8:04 am

I commend you on speaking out, however this is not a question that can be awnsered by a layperson, it’s a complicated halachik issue that only knowledgeable Rabbinical experts in consultation with our local Rabnonim or vis versa can deal and decide.

One who publicly advocates for a eiruv in crown Heights should perhaps ask themselves where is this coming from trying to be a better chosid / yid or perhaps?

Area
May 5, 2016 7:53 am

It seems that this should be extended to at least Kingsbrook (where girls ?do? used to routinely go – then they can bring patients to shuls) and to the E90s where many people are moving.

Rabbi weberman of Miami states
May 5, 2016 7:38 am

Rabbi Weberman of Miami was asked
Under what heter can someone in crown heights allow a cleaning lady to walk a stroller for a shabbos guest home to where they were staying his answer was ” number 1 . Crown Heights is a Karmulis . Number 2. Shvus Deshvus Lo Gazrinon. Number 3 . Simchas shabbos .
He is a very respected Rov .

Old timer
May 5, 2016 7:26 am

In West Hampton Beach, non observant Jews have legally fought off the eruv to keep our chevra away from their town. In CH an eruv is being halachickly challenged to……..

To #11
May 5, 2016 7:10 am

I think a start to resolving the problems would be to get an education so that you can spell correctly and write logical, proper sentences.
As for “mingle of woman roaming”, what does that have to do with an eirev? Or lack of eirev? As far as u recall from my days in school, one can walk out of their house on shabbos even without their eirev.

Asifa in OT
May 5, 2016 7:01 am

Last time Berry had a feature article on COL the Charadim dree 2000 people to the OT ballroom. It was an eye opening evening. Hope the organizers do it again!

Lubavitch communities with eruvim
May 5, 2016 4:59 am

The lubavitch community in Los Angeles, CA has an eruv and their streets have more traffic than us.
If the Rebbe was flat against an eruv why does kfar chabad have an eruv?
At the very least, the leaders should make an eruv for those who do carry in CH

@10
May 5, 2016 4:02 am

Maybe chill OK? let people discuss issues without these personal attacks.

Gimmel Tamuz
May 5, 2016 3:23 am

the rebbe isnt here with us anymore and would have changed his mind if he saw how much we need it.

From Experience..
May 5, 2016 3:18 am

As shluchim in Europe in a city without an eruv, we frequently meet frum Israelis carrying on Shabbos, who have no idea that there is a problem. They simply are unaware of any issur. Sometimes even after we explain, they still push the stroller etc because it sounds so crazy to them, like a minhag they don’t have to adhere to.

The issue for women and children is indeed a big problem, but the potential of chillul shabbos must also be taken into account.

Yankel Todres
May 5, 2016 3:09 am

Most important of all; you say you’re not a Rav. In that case the entire article should be prefaced by saying that it is ALL solely a matter of your own personal opinion. Quoting some views from Halacha and not others, and giving your own interpretation of them might have been okay if you made it abundantly clear that this is only your own personal opinion (without trying to present it as the final word in Halacha). It would seem that as the Rebbes Chassidim, and as you yourself quote “and one who fears heaven will be stringent to himself”… Read more »

OH EM GEE
May 5, 2016 2:47 am

WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU EVEN THINK OF THIS!! why would you even THINK of changing crown hights to a way that the rebbe dissagried with!!!! DISGUSTING!!!

FACTS
May 5, 2016 2:24 am

Facts are facts. The rebbe was against it. Lets not get into reasons and make up our own opinions. If the rebbe was against it thats it end of discussion.

Stunned!
May 5, 2016 1:58 am

This writer obviously did a lot of research on this topic. Is he not aware of the Rebbes CLEAR answer to Melbourne (where the Rebbe calls it a “Takala ayumo”!)? or did he intentionally not include it in this thorough article?

Writing without knowing facts.
May 5, 2016 1:50 am

Everyone knows that the Rebbe was asked more than once about making an eruv in Crown Heights and the Rebbe was against it. Rabbi Groner can testify to this.
I live in a community where there is a so called eruv, and I see the abuse that is done with it. Kids ride their bikes and skate boards throughout the neighborhoods etc..
When the Rabbi’s gave a hechsher to the eruv they wrote that it may only be relied on in very important needs. Today those that carry do not make any difference to important and non important needs.

Simple
May 5, 2016 1:06 am

the mingle of woman roaming in shabbos would not do any good for the community. We have enofgh problems.
The average guy dosent know the dinim to make an eruv nor has acsess politically to do it. We don’t know where to start. If it were as easy as cutting the beard then it would be done.

רבם דקרו
May 5, 2016 1:02 am

it is a shame that COLLIVE is a platform for discussions against the Rebbe’s opinion. Many CH residents who asked the Rebbe in person regarding an Eiruv were answered clearly that the Rebbe is against it. these new “Bla bla” Darshonim like the writer here shoudl go back to school and learn “Derech Eretz Kodmao LaTora” before they open their mouth.

You sound arrogant
May 5, 2016 12:54 am

Some valid points some very weak trying to hard Agenda driven points. I don’t see any strong points.
Why didn’t the Rebbe instruct an eiruv.

The Rebbe's did not allow for a Public Eruv
May 5, 2016 12:34 am

When my grandfather R’ Tzvi Hirsch Chitrik a”h was active in the Crown Heights Community Council he asked the Rebbe at Yechidus if he should make an Eruv in Crown Heights. The Rebbe’s reply was that they should not publicize making an Eruv so that people do not get used to carrying on Shabbos.

Mendel - Everytown USA
May 5, 2016 12:33 am

Just like Call of the Shofer, this is a passing phase that we go through as a community.
Nothing will come of it as the majority of Crown Heightsers have a head on their shoulders and won’t give in to a few liberal leaning folk who live around Crown Heights.

Let’s just move along.

Monsey resident
May 5, 2016 12:33 am

In monsey we have a eiruv some chabd families use it some don’t but the week when there was a front page add in the local weekly warning all that the eiruv is down more then 1 stroller showed up to the chabad shul Iheard from many chabadniks that during tishrei when the Israeli bochurim come they evidently have a lack of sensitivity for this milacha and will be seen often doing the passing business or wont be willing to put a picture of the rebbe down outside So to all those i ch who are jealous of the eiruv… Read more »

Citizen Berel
May 5, 2016 12:32 am

In sum this hefkerus divides into 3 sections: 1. author says that a legitimate eruv is legitimate. He beats the strawman to death. Indeed, eruvim is legitimate halachic practice. 2. quotes from Rebbe. whines about how hesitant he is to say the Rebbe’s views have changed. and proceeds to explain why the Rebbe’s views may have changed. 3. gives halachic psak that you can make eruv with tzuras hapesach in kan siva, except that he says that he isn’t a rov and that what he saya should not be reliedon expect for the purposes of having debunked the myth that… Read more »

You failed to mention all the reasons the Rebbe gave
May 5, 2016 12:28 am

There’s another reason the Rebbe gives that you do not mention, when people move to another community or visit one that does not have a eruv they will forget and carry on shabbos

FINALLY
May 5, 2016 12:18 am

THANK YOU RABBI SCHWARTZ for your erudite and thorough and respectful piece. This is exactly what i have been saying for years..it is time to free the mothers and fathers of small children who dread Shabbos nebech because they are stuck at home. They can’t even join their friends or families for a seudah or a visit with bubby. For shame…those that don’t want to use the eruv don’t have to…but for women and children the eruv would be a wonderful thing and would even encourage young couples to stay in crown heights and not move to monsey as many… Read more »

you can write what you want
May 5, 2016 12:11 am

but the Rebbe clearly told R’ Hirschel Chitrik a”h in yechidus, that he should NOT build an eiruv in crown heights.

Amen!
May 5, 2016 12:05 am

Unfortunately there are many in our community to ignorant to read this in its entirety and will rely on long held trops. In time an erev will be a reality!

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