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Monday, 28 Sivan, 5782
  |  June 27, 2022

‘You Can Build an Eruv. It’s Just Not Approved by the Rebbe’

Rabbi Mottel Krasnjanski of Australia writes back to Rabbi Baruch Oberlander, Hungary's Head Shliach and Chief of Budapest's Orthodox Rabbinate, who criticized opposition to the landmark letter by Chabad rabbonim approving the establishment of eruvin in large cities. Full Story

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Words of Truth
September 23, 2021 7:22 pm

Thank you Rabbi Krasnjanski for sharing the Rebbe’s opinion as it is, without ‘reinterpretation.’

btw
Reply to  Words of Truth
September 23, 2021 9:23 pm

thay obviusly took of all the thumbs up

Huh
Reply to  btw
September 24, 2021 8:25 am

What does that mean?

Not a great reasons
September 23, 2021 7:47 pm

There is no proof the Rebbe edited the entire code, only several pages of it (and random pages that were in the Talks and Tales).

The response is clear to Rabbi Gutnick, this is not for him, as he does not know these properly, and should leave it to others who do know it.

Q on the Rebbe???
Reply to  Not a great reasons
September 23, 2021 11:14 pm

If the Rebbe edits something then the whole thing is edited.
If you were to edit it then you were to be correct.
Are you Lubavitch???

Stop putting words in the Rebbe's mouth
Reply to  Not a great reasons
September 24, 2021 7:14 am

The Rebbe’s response to R’ Gutnick doesn’t require your “boich sevoros” in order to be understood.

Dude
Reply to  Not a great reasons
September 24, 2021 1:24 pm

dont make excuses for the rebbe if he felt he should edit the whole thing he would of, you think the rebbe didnt know?

Reader
September 23, 2021 8:29 pm

Approved or encouraged?

What’s a better word.

Bkovid godol
September 23, 2021 8:41 pm

This is how a rov writes, with respect, to the point, and without cheap personalized shtoching. Kol hakovod.

Thank you
September 23, 2021 8:45 pm

Clear as day, not withstanding the importance of an eruv, it does not have the rebbe’s approval

If the 16 rabbonim feel a need to establish eruvin they should do so, but no need to claim the rebbe approves or to place pressure on others to do the same.

Each community & city is different and most likely none of the 16 rabbonim would be happy if others would interfere in their city or kehilla.

Eruv in Austalua
September 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Wait a minute! Bichlal, Australia is a place where it is uncertain which day is actually shabbos!

The halachic dateline has various opinions (including opinion of Rebbe, Chazon Ish, Rav Hertzog and other poskim).

How can you build a shita on eruv from a place that shabbos is uncertain to teach on an eruv on places that shabbis is certain?!

Apples and oranges.

Oh, that’s why many of the 16 signatories are roshei yeshivos, that are experts in pilpul, rather than rabbonim, that practice halacha lemaaseh.

Eli
Reply to  Eruv in Austalua
September 23, 2021 11:42 pm

C’mon you can do better than this lol

Nonsense.
Reply to  Eruv in Austalua
September 24, 2021 2:13 am

Nonsense.

Wow, incredibly well written
Reply to  Eruv in Austalua
September 24, 2021 2:37 pm

Wow! Amazing point. Upon reading the first two paragraphs of your post, I thought to myself, wow, this guy is dumb.
But you nailed it in the past paragraph.
Evidently, the thumb downers had no idea what you are saying…

In practice there is no safek
Reply to  Eruv in Austalua
September 25, 2021 9:50 pm

While the opinions based on the Baal Hama’or (except the Chazon Ish) say Melbourne and Sydney are on the wrong side of the dateline, they are a small minority and in practice nobody takes them into account at all. Certainly no Lubavitchers, but I’ve never heard of anyone at all who refrains from melacha on Sundays. The most I’ve heard is that there are some who are choshesh for the Chazon Ish, and therefore don’t go boating on a Sunday. And I doubt there are more than a handful of such people, if any. Likewise I’ve never heard of any… Read more »

Was the rebbe's answer in writing?
September 23, 2021 9:08 pm

Are we supposed to take your word for it? Why is there no letter or sicha about this?

maybe
Reply to  Was the rebbe's answer in writing?
September 24, 2021 1:26 pm

it was a letter to rabbi gutnick and i dont think the rebbe would want it to be publicised

Well done!
September 23, 2021 9:08 pm

Beautifully written!
Factual and to the point.
Thank you for giving clarity on the topic.

btw
September 23, 2021 9:22 pm

if you are a lubavitcher and follow the alter rebbe you wouldt carry the “lubavitchers ” that use it are going against the alter rebbe and are not lubavitch

Not true.
Reply to  btw
September 24, 2021 6:11 pm

Where did you get the idea that Lubavitchers should not carry in any eruv? The Alter Rebbe merely says that, although the halacha is not like the Rambam, we should be machmir like him and not carry in an eruv that is not kosher according to him. But if an eruv is kosher even according to the Rambam there is no reason for Lubavitchers not to carry there.

Excellent
September 23, 2021 9:27 pm

It’s high time that people who support the Rebbe’s ideas take a stance. For too long, people who are motivated only by personal interest (in this case, to carry on Shabbos R”L) have been calling the shots. They’ve been influencing our young and vulnerable, and recently, they have even started influencing some of our esteemed rabbonim. These days, it’s been quite hard to know which rav to trust, and this is especially true with many rabbonim making medical decisions for us, recommending that we inject poison into our bodies… Thank you Rabbi Krasnianski for standing up for what’s right; for… Read more »

Anti-eruv
Reply to  Excellent
September 24, 2021 11:22 am

Are you saying that anti-eruv is like anti-vaxxers?

Doctors decide medical issues.

Rabbonim decide halachic issues.

Roshei yeshivos decide signing onto Kol Korei proclamations about anything.

spot on
September 23, 2021 9:29 pm

Reb Motel Shlit’a You are 100% right that this is not the forum for such a discussion to take place. However you correctly responded to Rabbi Oberlander’s position. People should not assume if there will be a Rabbinic response to what Reb Motel has written and he does not respond (as he said he will not and I hope he doesn’t) is by any means a suggestion that Reb Motel has no halachic sound response. If someone is sincere about understanding the Rebbe’s position on a city eiruv they should contact Reb Motel directly. The only reason Reb Motel penned… Read more »

My humble opinion
September 23, 2021 9:37 pm

I have read some אגרות קדש to Australia And I’m aware of some answers My humble conclusion this is an Australian thing It is not possible that the rebbe should discourage a הלכה in ש׳ע I saw an answer where the rebbe encourages a היתר מכירה for businesses etc. (It could be in Australia the rebbe didn’t want Lubavitcher rabonim to take a leading roll in the עירוב as we see with the gutnik answer was directed at HIS leadership in the עירוב) Rabbi oberlander makes a strong case And I personally feel as crown hights is today they should… Read more »

Humble Indeed
Reply to  My humble opinion
September 24, 2021 12:23 am

If you’d like an eiruv find yourself a rov who says it’s ok. Don’t try to twist the Rebbe’s words so you can pay yourself on the head like a tattelle that it’s all mehudar and that you’re a true chossid

no!
Reply to  My humble opinion
September 24, 2021 1:29 pm

the rebbe btw i dont know if you know but FYI the rebbe is also a rav and its not posible to make eruv according to the alter rebbe in crown hights if you dont know halachos dont speak

no!
Reply to  My humble opinion
September 24, 2021 1:38 pm

if you dont know halacha why speak?

no!
Reply to  My humble opinion
September 24, 2021 1:42 pm

according to the alter rebbe its not possible to make an eruv in crown hights do you follow the alter rebbe?

Certainly possible
Reply to  no!
September 25, 2021 9:53 pm

According to the Alter Rebbe its certainly possible to make an eruv in Crown Heights. It’s even possible to make an eruv that a Lubavitcher can carry in. But even the current eruv is kosher according to the Alter Rebbe, he would just recommend that one shouldn’t use it.

Shmerel
Reply to  no!
September 25, 2021 11:24 pm

You absolutely never learned the alter rebbe shulchan aruch. The alter rebbe paskens you can make a eruv anywhere.

Good thing
Reply to  My humble opinion
September 24, 2021 4:57 pm

Nobody asked you for your opinion, since you’re not a posek and not even a ch resident

Good news
Reply to  My humble opinion
September 24, 2021 6:14 pm

There is an eruv in Crown Heights, whether the Lubavitcher rabbonim like it or not. It is perfectly kosher according to the halacha, but not according to the minority opinion of the Rambam, so lechatchila a Lubavitcher should not carry in it, but if you did end up carrying by mistake, don’t worry about it. And those who do choose to carry in it are not breaking shabbos.

Shmerel
Reply to  Good news
September 25, 2021 11:26 pm

It’s according to the Rambam too, since we have רוב מחיצות with מחיצות הבתים

Thank You Again Reb Motttel For your words of T
September 23, 2021 9:56 pm

Typically, A Rav that voices his opinion contradictory to that of a Shchuna With a Sitting בית דין especially where other neighborhoods look to for guidance
That particular Outside Rav Appears to be Missing The ‘Fifth’ Cheilik of שלחן ערוך, we applaud Mottel Krasiansky for his Stand up opinion,

eruv
September 23, 2021 10:00 pm

by the way, one of the points said by the rebbe about not making public an eruv. is that the people in charge of the eruv now . are not going to be alive forever. who knows who will be in charge later (eruvin were made all along, only where there was an very establihed community with a system of continuos rabonim etc. the same thing goes for the population. one canot be sure what kind of people will be living in the place served by eruv, and how will they react when an announcement is made that there is… Read more »

Very true
Reply to  eruv
September 24, 2021 5:01 pm

I personally recall when hurricane Sandy hit and took down the eruv in long island. My father and I were walking to mikvah and saw numerous people leaving their houses with talis bag in hand. When told that the eruv was down, all except one shrugged it off. Frumme yidden who could not even comprehend the possibility of not carrying on Shabbos

The truth bared out
September 23, 2021 10:17 pm

After reading this, it is clear that the rabbonim who issued this “landmark” approval claiming the support of the Rebbe didn’t do their homework before signing their names unto the paper. The lesson here is that Rabbonim are human and can make mistakes. Many great Rabbonim believed that Shabsai Tzvi was Moshiach and they were wrong. Let’s all have some humility, ahavas Yisroel to our fellow man, and Daven for Moshiach to come soon!

Made mistakes?
Reply to  The truth bared out
September 24, 2021 12:39 am

A Rov needs to be sure of himself when he Paskens to be meikel. He doesn’t get to base his opinion on Pshetlach because they sound correct. This isn’t an argument between Rabbonim. It’s a Rov who stands up for what’s right against people who signed a Kol Koreh against the Rebbe. And yes, although Rabbi Tziner signed it, I would have to believe that he was mislead by people with and agenda. Additionally, the Rebbe had a derech – part of which was to encourage people to do good things. Just because he may have encouraged an Eruv that… Read more »

I can testify
September 23, 2021 10:47 pm

Everything Rav Krasnjanski is saying in reference to the Eiruv in Melbourne and the Rebbe’s response to the thought of establishing an Eiruv in Melbourne is true correct and precise.

Also the Rebbe’s clear stand and statement to Melbourne is applicable and is to be considered worldwide based on the Rebbe’s reasoning.

Rabbi K- a real genius btw
Reply to  I can testify
September 24, 2021 4:48 am

Much more than that.
EVERY SINGLE person that I knew growing up that always said “they held of the eruv” , every time in camp (outside of the small eruv inside the camp grounds) or a different city where there was no eruv, they would still say “well I hold of the eruv” and they would continue to carry. And you can’t say so every place should make a eruv- because that’s impossible and unfortunately most places in the world once looked into, their eruv isn’t properly kosher or not checked enough.

Take my word for it
Reply to  I can testify
September 24, 2021 2:48 pm

Because I’m an anonymous collive poster

Thanks for making clear
September 23, 2021 11:49 pm

Thank you rabbi krasjananski for making it clear and helping people understand.
A local resident of crown heights

the rebbes opinion
September 23, 2021 11:50 pm

before one argues about the meaning of a private response of the rebbe to someone reguarding eruvin (especially when u dont even know what the question was) , u should atleast know the basic halochos and clear sources quoted by the rebbe. as the rebbe reacted very sharply when someone claimed the rebbe disagreed with halocho.

16 rabbonim
September 24, 2021 12:20 am

Call the Rabbonim that signed that kol koreh. I heard from 6 of them personally that they were misled about the contents of the letter when they signed. What is ridiculous is that none of them announced this publicly.

Again
September 24, 2021 9:37 am

Here we have another
16 Rabbonim says the Rebbe says this , other 16 will say the Rebbe meant the opposite
Come on
Each BD should decide what’s going on in his city

Since when do Roshei yeshivos pasken halacha?!
September 24, 2021 9:41 am

People, many of the 16 signatories are NOT practicing rabbonim. They are roshei yeshivos. True they give great shiyurim, but they are not poskum! Missing are the many of the senior experienced Rabbonei Lubavitch of America and Eretz Yisroel! Missing are the Badatz of CH! Instead, the 16 are a collection of Roshei Yeshivos, a handful of rabbonim, some junior in experience, one or 2 senior rabbonim, inxluding a non-chabad. THAT sums uo the 16. Kol hakovod for Reb Mottel for standing up to emes.

How hard to be stuck with a baby
September 24, 2021 9:56 am

It’s so hard to be stuck in a small apartment and not able to go for a fresh air with a baby …and yes we don’t have big bobby house here to be invited to enjoy the Shabbes.

Basically some women are home for many years..

Why it’s so difficult for me and no one to talk to?

totally agreed
Reply to  How hard to be stuck with a baby
September 27, 2021 9:45 am

it seems that we are just supposed to go on mesirus nefesh and it doesn’t matter how much we suffer.

Why
September 24, 2021 11:59 am

We have local rabonim and they will decide. No need for “outsiders” to pontificate in this Public forum

Proclomations
September 24, 2021 2:22 pm

Is the issue of eruv SUCH a pressing and urgent issue that requires 16 talmidei chachomim to stop all other activities and issue a proclimation?!

Is this eruv business a mivtza like the mivtzoyim? Is this hafotzas hamayonos? Where is this eruv “mivtza” coming from?

Forget shidduch crisis. Forget kids OTD. Forget tuition crisis. Forget all issues that need attention. Be ause the ONE think Lubavitch needs right now is…eruv in every community. Really?

Shmerel
Reply to  Proclomations
September 25, 2021 11:28 pm

The Baal Shem Tov teaches us “ואמר ששמע בשם הבעש”ט ז”ל פי הפ’ בזע”ם תצעד ארץ זעם ר”ת זביחה עירובין מקוואות שע”י דברים אלו תצעד ותתייסד הארץ” that eruvin is from the three yesodos of the world(torah).

maybe if there was an eruv
Reply to  Proclomations
September 27, 2021 9:47 am

and women were allowed to go outside even with little babies, people would be happier in general and then happier about their yiddishkeit. It’s hard for us nowadays to be stuck inside, it takes away the joy of Shabbos. Sometimes in the long summer shabbosim I would dread shabbos. That is a serious issue that is worth consideration and not just brushing it off with “we go on mesirus nefesh”. Not everyone has family in the community and can just stay with family. Sometimes we are all alone and it is very hard.

Crown heights toshev
September 25, 2021 11:14 pm

The Rebbe’s answer – מפורסמת דעתי means that his opinion is well known… When this topic was raised a few years ago, in addition to the halachic prohibition mentioned by ALL crown heights Rabbonim… Reb Yoel Kahn and Reb Leibel Groner each wrote letters stating unequivocally that the Rebbe was against an eiruv in large cities… no need to take my word as both letters were published right here on col. Who else is more qualified to tell us what the Rebbe’s opinion is if not Reb Yoel and Rabbi Groner?!!! The Rebbe said mefursemes daati… does it makes sense… Read more »

Is there a Reshus Harabim today?
January 31, 2022 12:55 pm

I see everyone quoting from the Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch that in our times there is NO Reshuh Harabim Mideoraisa.

Listen to this Sicha (link below) – where the Rebbe seems to say that this has in fact changed in our times…

https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/554143/jewish/12-Tammuz-5745-Sicha-4.htm

begin listening at 28:15 minutes into the sicha

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